Andreas Engström wrote:
>
>
> Tracy Yucikas <tyucikas@cts.com> wrote:
> >
> > oh gosh, never thought I'd play the devil's disciple and
> > defend a biblical
> > point
> > of view, but here goes ....
> >
> > "In the beginning the world was without form and void ...."
> > is how Genesis 1,1 starts out.
> >
> > Amazingly close to the default conditions which one could imagine
> > existing prior to the "Big Bang". (without form and void)
> >
Umm - no. Although it is popular to think so. you cannot use the word
"world" as it is cortridictory to "without form and void". The concept
for "world" could not have existed at that state. Read further down and
I will show some flaws with the other few verses mentioned.
> > Although I fer sure take issue with a lot of stuff that
> > comes later,
> > I can find no fault with how the first book of the bible starts.
> Just
> > need to speak out for truth (as I see it at least).
> >
> > ...Tracy Yucikas (speaking for non-verbal memes)
>
> Truth as you see it seems to be a bit incorrect.
>
> If one is going to correct someone, one should make darn sure
> one's correction actually is correct..
>
> The following are the first three verses of Genesis,
> chapter 1 (King James Version):
>
> 1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
If the Earth was created first, at the same time as the heavens (It is
irrelevant if heaven means "space" or "place of immortal delight") then
the Earth is the oldest entity in the Universe (aside from God) - the
problem here is that since we know that the rest of the Universe is at
least 12 Billion years old - probably closer to 18 billion - the Earth
would have been destroyed long ago when the orbit of the moon decayed to
the point that collision was imminent billions of years ago. (unless the
moon didnt exist). Also, there is not physical evidence on this planet
(except for meteorites) that points to the Earth being any older than
3.5 billion yrs old.
> 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness
> was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved
> upon the face of the waters.
Without the sun, there can be no water, it would be frozen to just above
absolute zero - it should say "moved apun the face of the ice".
> 3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
>
I assume that at this stage the sun was created? Unfortunately, there is
another paradox here. Our sun is young. only 5 Billion years old. If it
was created before the stars (the stars of course, all 100 gillion of
them were later created for us to have astrology and to navigate boats
by) which we see most them billions of years before our sun was started
by God.
> So, Genesis 1.1 doesn't start out as you claim, but exactly
> like Sodom quoted it. In the _next_ verse the phrase "without
> form, and void" occurs. In the same verse "the spirit of God moved
> upon the face of the water". Not a very accurate description of
> pre-"Big Bang" conditions, if you ask me.
>
> Not that I agree with Sodom either.. I'm sure that some verses in
> Genesis regarding reality that doesn't conflict with science.
> For instance, how about Genesis 1:20?
>
> 20. And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the
> moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly
> above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
>
Now that is cheating, but perhaps you didnt read my post a while back
that effectivly there is no magic in writing down things that can be
easily verified by everyone anywhere. These things actually exist and
are verifiable - there is no magic necessary for a novel to mention New
York City. Mentioning it's existence does not mean creating it's
existence. But I know you meant well.
> Aside from that "God" is supposed to have said this, certainly
> there are living creatures in the waters and birds flying above
> us? See? Genesis is a source of infinite wisdom.. :-)
>
> -Andreas Engstrom
> (Great Randomness)
in my humble opinion, the Bible is make believe - hand crafted to
devour the minds of the fearful (I put that there for Tim)
Sodom
Bill Roh
--------------3E27FCF79623CD447DC916BF
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Andreas Engström wrote:
Umm - no. Although it is popular to think so. you cannot use the word "world" as it is cortridictory to "without form and void". The concept for "world" could not have existed at that state. Read further down and I will show some flaws with the other few verses mentioned.Tracy Yucikas <tyucikas@cts.com> wrote:
>
> oh gosh, never thought I'd play the devil's disciple and
> defend a biblical
> point
> of view, but here goes ....
>
> "In the beginning the world was without form and void ...."
> is how Genesis 1,1 starts out.
>
> Amazingly close to the default conditions which one could imagine
> existing prior to the "Big Bang". (without form and void)
>
If the Earth was created first, at the same time as the heavens (It is irrelevant if heaven means "space" or "place of immortal delight") then the Earth is the oldest entity in the Universe (aside from God) - the problem here is that since we know that the rest of the Universe is at least 12 Billion years old - probably closer to 18 billion - the Earth would have been destroyed long ago when the orbit of the moon decayed to the point that collision was imminent billions of years ago. (unless the moon didnt exist). Also, there is not physical evidence on this planet (except for meteorites) that points to the Earth being any older than 3.5 billion yrs old.> Although I fer sure take issue with a lot of stuff that
> comes later,
> I can find no fault with how the first book of the bible starts. Just
> need to speak out for truth (as I see it at least).
>
> ...Tracy Yucikas (speaking for non-verbal memes)Truth as you see it seems to be a bit incorrect.
If one is going to correct someone, one should make darn sure
one's correction actually is correct..The following are the first three verses of Genesis,
chapter 1 (King James Version):1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Without the sun, there can be no water, it would be frozen to just above absolute zero - it should say "moved apun the face of the ice".2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness
was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved
upon the face of the waters.
I assume that at this stage the sun was created? Unfortunately, there is another paradox here. Our sun is young. only 5 Billion years old. If it was created before the stars (the stars of course, all 100 gillion of them were later created for us to have astrology and to navigate boats by) which we see most them billions of years before our sun was started by God.3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Now that is cheating, but perhaps you didnt read my post a while back that effectivly there is no magic in writing down things that can be easily verified by everyone anywhere. These things actually exist and are verifiable - there is no magic necessary for a novel to mention New York City. Mentioning it's existence does not mean creating it's existence. But I know you meant well.So, Genesis 1.1 doesn't start out as you claim, but exactly
like Sodom quoted it. In the _next_ verse the phrase "without
form, and void" occurs. In the same verse "the spirit of God moved
upon the face of the water". Not a very accurate description of
pre-"Big Bang" conditions, if you ask me.Not that I agree with Sodom either.. I'm sure that some verses in
Genesis regarding reality that doesn't conflict with science.
For instance, how about Genesis 1:20?20. And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the
moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly
above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
in my humble opinion, the Bible is make believe - hand crafted to devour the minds of the fearful (I put that there for Tim)Aside from that "God" is supposed to have said this, certainly
there are living creatures in the waters and birds flying above
us? See? Genesis is a source of infinite wisdom.. :-)-Andreas Engstrom
(Great Randomness)
Sodom
Bill Roh
--------------3E27FCF79623CD447DC916BF--