> Thanks for the offer but I cannot contribute more or less than I already
> offered. First, I do not see memes operating by bait and hook (or
> *especially* as containing "threat"). My understanding of a *meme* is
that
> it is dichotomy and self-negating with a less ordered cause and a
resultant
> effect which is more highly ordered or advantageous.
[snip]
> >Fellow virions, if you're like me, you'd like [1. steak] and [2. roses].
I
> mean, [3. who in their right mind wouldn't] or [3. after all, the
> alternative is a meaningless life lived in obscurity and no-one wants
that].
> Well as far as I can tell, in order to achieve this you must [4. post
your
> ideas and suggestions to the list!].
>
> If these improvements are satisfactory, then I might be able to
contribute
> 1/2, option/counter-option; 3, emotional "hook"; and 4. alternative
> resolution; though, I cannot abide by your definition of "meme".
Brett, I love you dearly, but you are nevertheless a raving loony. (But
don't fret, I count many a raving loony among my friends!)
Brett, if you'd like to contribute constructively to the discussion and
engage others in conversation with you, you might find that stepping
outside of your singularly personal defintions and actually /listening/ to
what others are saying would make a fine start. You want to share your
ideas and receive comment back on them, otherwise you wouldn't post to the
list. But unless you are willing to take the time to understand the
concepts under discussion and master the terminology on *everyone elsess*
terms, not just your own, the number of people who simply delete your
messages without reading them will continue to grow. None of us want to be
ignored, but unless you are willing to join in the discussion, you will be.
By engaging in any conversation you are accepting certain rules. (And if
you /don't/ want to accept them, you don't have talk in the first place!)
One of those implicit rules is that, in return for anothers attentiveness
and careful consideration of your thoughts, you will attend to what the
other person is saying and try to understand their thoughts as well. This
is not done by translating their words on your own terms! (Again, if you
don't like the rules, don't engage in conversation--but be warned, you will
end up a very lonely individual to be sure!) If someone uses a word, such
as "meme" or "bait" or "hook" and you are not sure what they mean--ASK! If
you wish to participate in a group discussion and there is already an
understanding among those involved as to what certain terms signify
("bait", "meme", "hook" or "threat") USE THOSE DEFINITIONS! If you want to
talk about something else, use a different word for it!
> My understanding of a *meme* is that
> it is dichotomy and self-negating with a less ordered cause and a
resultant
> effect which is more highly ordered or advantageous.
Your understanding of what a meme is is simply WRONG! Whatever it is
you're talking about is very interesting indeed, and I'd love to hear all
about it, BUT IT IS NOT A MEME! You do not understand what a meme is and
unless you can show that are at least willing to try to understand what
everyone else is talking about, on *their terms*, I see no reason why
anyone should try to understand what you are saying on yours.
(Understand?!?) In fact, if you continue your little flights of fancy, I
would urge everyone to simply delete your messages unread. You then will
be completely ignored and alone. (And no one wants that.)
But there is hope! Follow some of the URLs on the CoV page (or even in the
very message that you responded to) or check out any one of an inceasing
number of books on the subject and *read* what they have to say. And I
mean REALLY READ. Read it as if it was a foreign language you were trying
to learn or the deepest secrets of a new lover. Go into it with the
assumption that you /don't know/ what they are talking about and that they
/might/. Listen. Then listen some more (because, yes, there will be a
test!). And learn. Then try a few phrases yourself and listen again.
Again, imagine it is a new language you're trying to learn. If were just
learning French and someone who has spoken it for years corrected you,
would you say, "No, I'm right. You're just trying to impose your ideas
about how French should be spoken on me. My understanding of French is
self-generated and therefore more true!" If you did you would be a fool
(and one lonely fool in France to be sure). But, Brett, you are no fool.
Learn the language before you try and speak it.
-Prof. Tim