Re: virus: interactive meme page project

Brett Lane Robertson (unameit@tctc.com)
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:29:29 -0500

At 03:32 PM 1/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 09:26 PM 1/11/98 -0800, Tim Rhodes wrote:
>>
>>From: David McFadzean, January 11, 1998 11:29 AM
>>
>>> How about a site where you can design your own meme to send to
>>> another person by selecting a bait, hook and threat from lists
>>> along with your own message?
>>
>>This is sheer genius!!! And once the lists were created it would be a
>>simple thing to create, for amusement a `random meme generator' as well.
>
>I think I'm ready to get started on this project. Let's begin by
>creating lists of submemes categorized into baits, hooks, and
>threats.
>
>Here are the definitions again from the memetic lexicon
><http://virus.lucifer.com/memlex.html>
>
>BAIT : The part of a meme-complex that promises to benefit the host (usually
>in return for replicating the complex). The bait usually justifies, but does
>not explicitly urge, the replication of a meme-complex. (Donald Going, quoted
>by Hofstadter.) Also called the reward co-meme. (In many religions,
>"Salvation" is the bait, or promised reward; "Spread the Word" is the hook.
>Other common bait co-memes are "Eternal Bliss", "Security", "Prosperity",
>"Freedom".)
>
>HOOK : The part of a meme-complex that urges replication. The hook is often
>most effective when it is not an explicit statement, but a logical
>consequence
>of the meme's content.
>
>THREAT: The part of a meme-complex that encourages adherence and
>discourages mis-
>replication. ("Damnation to Hell" is the threat co-meme in many religious
>schemes.)
>
>I was thinking of adding another submeme category called "framework" which
>would provide the scaffolding for assembling the rest into a coherent, viable
>meme.
>
>e.g. "Dear friend, if you're like me, you'd like [insert bait]. I mean,
>who in their right mind wouldn't? Well as far as I can tell, in order to
>achieve this you must [insert main message]. After all, the alternative
>is [insert threat] and no-one wants that. If you'd like to help, please
>[insert hook]."
>
>I think it will be interesting to see what effect inserting the same
>bait-hook-threat triplet into different frameworks will have.
>
>Fellow virions, if you're like me, you'd like make a difference. I mean,
>who in their right mind wouldn't? Well as far as I can tell, in order to
>achieve this you must take a risk and get involved. After all, the alternative
>is a meaningless life lived in obscurity and no-one wants that. If you'd
>like to help, please post your ideas and suggestions to the list!
>
>
>
>--
>David McFadzean

David,

Thanks for the offer but I cannot contribute more or less than I already
offered. First, I do not see memes operating by bait and hook (or
*especially* as containing "threat"). My understanding of a *meme* is that
it is dichotomy and self-negating with a less ordered cause and a resultant
effect which is more highly ordered or advantageous.

My understanding of a "virus" is that it contains a "hook" though the hook
is always in the form of cognitive dissonence--the virus induces emotions--
which are imperfectly resolved assonance between the (perhaps) "bait/threat"
you propose (though see below).

That is, the meme is self-contained and the virus seeks a host because it is
not resolvable in it's current form. But, even allowing that "meme" is
shorthand for "virus", the minimum number of parts I could imagine for it's
operation would be 4: (adapting your terms) 1., 2. A "bait"/"threat" pair
(more likely, a bait and counter-bait paradox), 3. An emotional hook
(though perhaps unstated--the cognitive dissonance produced through the
irresolvability of the first pair)...4. An inserted promise of salvation
from the emotional confusion (your "main message").

Reviewing what I just wrote, my main disagreement is your assumption that
there must be a "threat" (unless emotion is viewed as a threat...though I
might interpret threat/promise--in the unstated form of fantasy bonding or
magical thinking: ie. emotion; though, not necessarily negative).
Otherwise, although I don't like your term "bait" (which could just as
easily apply to the "message") I might adapt.

>Fellow virions, if you're like me, you'd like [1. steak] and [2. roses]. I
mean, [3. who in their right mind wouldn't] or [3. after all, the
alternative is a meaningless life lived in obscurity and no-one wants that].
Well as far as I can tell, in order to achieve this you must [4. post your
ideas and suggestions to the list!].

If these improvements are satisfactory, then I might be able to contribute
1/2, option/counter-option; 3, emotional "hook"; and 4. alternative
resolution; though, I cannot abide by your definition of "meme".

Brett
http://members.tripod.com/~Brettman35/index.html
ICQ &MindRec "Chat" UIN 6630756

All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me
happy.