VirusWiki - View Source: VirianCouncil-2003-09-02

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Describe [VirianCouncil-2003-09-02] here.

<hermit> Good morning
<Shadow> yes, good morning.
* hermit asks why Shadow elected to post snide votes instead of talking?
<Shadow> hm?
<hermit> That was the way that I perceived it anyway.
<Shadow> hmmm.
<hermit> hmmmm.
<hermit> Shadow: Now, speak about about your selected means of communication... or non-communication.
<Shadow> oh. yeah. snideness.
<Shadow> yeah that sounds like a standard operating procedure in one of my "grumpy" moods.
* Kid-A looks bewildered and perplexed
<hermit> It's ok Kid-A, we still love you
<hermit> Shadow, please refrain in future.
<Shadow> But basically I think I need to rewrite that poll, because "incest" aside,  I think some people didn't quite understand what I was trying to say
<Shadow> hah, yeah, right.
<hermit> Be grumpy to David & I in person, on IRC, even on the wiki.
<Shadow> I make no promises. :-)
<Kid-A> poll? what poll? did i miss a poll?
* hermit notes the one Shadow inserted up several noses simultaneously without even using lubricant!
<Kid-A> holy cow
<Shadow> I still had a point to "incest", but right now explaining that would probably violate doctors orders.
<hermit> ?
<hermit> Too much keyboard use?
<Shadow> I still had a point.
<Shadow> yeah.
<hermit> SHit
<Shadow> I'm not joking.
* hermit inserts the point where it will do most good...
<hermit> It's supposed to be good for the prostate
<hermit> Ok, I'm listening
<Shadow> well, its certainly not democratic.
<hermit> Nobody has said anything about democracy.
<Shadow> it doesn't even really provide a result that is necessarily embraced by most of the people.
<hermit> Except that it is a bad idea.
<hermit> Which is why we have a sumucracy
* Kid-A struggles with all the shiny words
<hermit> And it seems to be.
<Shadow> "sumucracy"?
<hermit> http://virus.lucifer.com/wiki/sumucracy
<Shadow> hmmm.
<hermit> Shadow - which is why the wiki. Which is a continuation of the Codex comnbined with another year of off line discussion, as well as the IRL discussion as well as the IRC discussions...
<Kid-A> i c we r talking about the rep system again?
<Shadow> Kid, yeah.
<hermit> Kid-A - here http://virus.lucifer.com/wiki/VirianReputation
<Shadow> I don't envision this performing the same function as the "virian council".  I agree that its a nice way to see what "popular virians" are thinking about, but it doesn't seem either 1) transparent or 2) conducive to much deliberation which democracy IS about . . . and a good thing I might add.
<Shadow> I don't see everyone in Virus having "a vote".  but I do think that some sort of council should itself operate in a more democratic fashion than this.
<hermit> Why?
<hermit> Are you saying "all men are equal?
<Shadow> no i'm not.
<hermit> The democracy lies in the fact that anyone can earn a reputation.
<hermit> And remarkably quickly.
<hermit> The truth of that is highly visible on the board.
<hermit> If you look at the actual value of any one person (including the respected) it is relatively small.
<hermit> You need to look.
<hermit> Here http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?action=repIndex
<Shadow> I have.
<hermit> Taking 1.5% as an arbitrary cut-off:
<hermit> http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?action=repIndex
<Shadow> I'm not suggesting something INSTEAD of the reputation/voting system,  I'm suggesting something in addition to it.
 *<hermit> David Lucifer,8.6111,30.46,15.43,1
 *<hermit> rhinoceros,7.7606,13.62,6.90,418
 *<hermit> Kharin,7.7512,13.50,6.84,1788
 *<hermit> Hermit,7.7229,13.14,6.66,3
 *<hermit> Zloduska,7.3613,9.34,4.73,28
 *<hermit> Jake Sapiens,7.3238,9.01,4.57,1404
 *<hermit> ElvenSage,7.0593,7.02,3.56,1355
 *<hermit> Walter Watts,6.9361,6.24,3.16,4
 *<hermit> Kalkor,6.8354,5.68,2.88,213
 *<hermit> Tywick,6.7968,5.47,2.77,419
 *<hermit> RavenBlack,6.7907,5.44,2.76,5
 *<hermit> Sat,6.7494,5.23,2.65,1604
 *<hermit> Blunderov,6.7088,5.04,2.55,1830
 *<hermit> DrSebby,6.5812,4.46,2.26,13
 *<hermit> Jonathan Davis,6.5145,4.19,2.12,1337
 *<hermit> the bricoleur,6.5021,4.14,2.10,1372
 *<hermit> localroger,6.3722,3.66,1.86,1692
 *<hermit> irvken,6.3341,3.53,1.79,1356
 *<hermit> michelle,6.2946,3.40,1.72,161
 *<hermit> Hermitess,6.2347,3.22,1.63,387
 *<hermit> Kid-A,6.1837,3.06,1.55,1700
 *<hermit> crw,6.1530,2.98,1.51,1853

<hermit> Second last column is equity

<hermit> Notice that aside from David at 15%, the next 5 have only 25% of the total equity.
<Shadow> Okay Hermit, imagine this now . . . .
<hermit> In other words, the council (top 6) currently commands less than 40% of the vote.
* hermit nods
<hermit> Listening carefully.
<Shadow> right, The Council.
<Shadow> not really a formal entity.
<Shadow> yet
<hermit> Right
<Shadow> but certainly the reputation system might suggest some names that will more likely than not be on it.
<Shadow> I think a real formal council is a necessary balance to this voting reputation system.
* hermit agrees
<hermit> As you have seen, it is in progress
<hermit> http://virus.lucifer.com/wiki/VirianCouncil
<Shadow> It doesn't matter so much if a few members do nothing more than offer their equity.
<hermit> I hope that it doesn't get back to that situation.
<hermit> If it does, the equity only people are likely to sag rather rapidly IMO,,,
<Shadow> that's reality Hermit.
<hermit> We've been there before

--> rhino (rhino@212.205.234.191) has joined #hermit

<Shadow> And we will probably be there again.
<hermit> And we can play musical chairs - quite transparently, if we have to
<hermit> Hi Rhino
<hermit> How do you like my one-liners?
<rhino> hey hermit, Shadow
<Kid-A> hey rhino
<rhino> ah, they should be handy for the nix folks
<rhino> hey Kid
* hermit nods
<Shadow> Still, even of those who would be "window dressing" do frequently enough make a good point or express a relevant opinion.  After all they probably didn't get equity for doing absolutely nothing in the first place.
* hermit nods

--> Lucifer (~nemo@24.244.36.179) has joined #hermit

* hermit bows
* Shadow looks disgusted at the defiling of Log Lady's office.
<Shadow> welcome, Lucifer.
<hermit> Jake doesn't want to type too much, so I'll toss you a log afterwards Lucifer
<hermit> She's off.
<hermit> I'll edit and post to the wiki
<rhino> good, because i have no idea what it was about
* Kid-A shrugs
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