[Hermit]
In the absence of other law providing a shelter for them, they also have the right to harm Israeli citizens in equal measure to the harm that Israel imposes on them
[rhinoceros]
I am not very familiar with the concept of "right" in such cases (e.g as in "the right to defend" or "the right to prevent" or "Lex Talionis"). So, I am still using the concept of "expected behavior" or something like that. I can think of some cases where "equal measure to the harm" is hard to define or achieve.
[ben]
The exact logic by which the violence in the region will continue to escalate. If they would stop killing Israeli civilians, Israel could lift the curfews etc. If Israel allows them the normal amount of freedoms, there is no guarantee that the killings would cease. In fact, there is a large amount of evidence to the contrary. So Hermit, if you were in a position of leadership in the Israeli government, what would you do? Seriously? Would you give them their freedom if it meant signing your own death warrant?
[rhinoceros]
Sure, the vicious circle is there. Possibly, I wouldn't give them their freedom, and they wouldn't accept not being given their freedom. But there is an asymmetry in your two "if statements". The first one contains a "could" and the second one contains a "there is no guarantee that would"; I'll just attribute it to your point of view of where the circle starts (I have one too).
A more significant problem seems to be how the "if" part of these statements could be achieved. There *are* fundies (as everywhere) and there *are* hardcore Zionists. The problem is how one can turn them into nut cases instead of empowering them, and that can achieved only if the people don't need them.
There are "real" problems too. We have seen evidence here that the Zionists have been pushing on by establishing new settlements, and we have also seen explanations for that, based on contention for physical resources and demographic issues.
---- This message was posted by rhinoceros to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=26072>
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