> Materialism is based on the subjective/objective
> distinction, as it claims that objective phenomena are
> real and subjective ones unreal, but it fails to explain
> consciousness.
My take on materialism: the type of materialism mentioned above, which I am
somewhat sure by this definition, cannot be accurate only because it sees the
subjective as unreal, not because it fails to explain consciousness. When I see
yourself and Wade battling over this, I cant help think that you associate
emotions with concepts like "real". If we take, say 100 people and put them in a
room together. We have the objectve reality that is the people, the air, the
room, the things going on in the timeline, the thoughts of the people etc...
Every individual is thinking or feeling, and to each of them a differing reality
exists. It is real to them, as much as their existence is real to them. But that
reality for John, is definately not the same reality for Jenny; However, if John
and Jenny are share the same culture, and language, and since they are in the
same location, their "realities" are not that much different from each other when
compared with the whole of humanity - and virtually identicle when compared
against, say, the moon. The variables involved, though seemingly convoluted,
really boil down to small electro-chemical differences. Their subjective view is
real because their hardware and software are running it - I dont think any of us
doubt that each of us exists in our own minds.
Materialism seems to me to be the notion that only the materialistic world can
satisfy the subjective reality. This is obviously not true, as you say, no truly
religious person would fall to such a fool hearty attitude. Even myself - a
reductionist not by choice but by definition - realizes that the mind is what is
"real" to me and I should enjoy it while I can. I suspect that my consciousness
is not unique or special, but just a pleasant side effect to a functioning mind.
One of the very few things that I do believe, is that everything I am is in the
4lb chunk of neurons crammed ungracefully into my skull. My body is here - not at
the evolutionary scale, but from my perspective - to protect and move my brain
about. My hands are tools for my brain to manipulate objects etc...
It seems to me that the real issue is an explanation for consciousness - Science
in the last 20 years has incresed our knowlenge of this a thousand fold, and it
is still growing faster and faster. I suspect that consciousness is really pretty
simple, and much more a feat of engineering then anything else. What happens when
we make an AI? will they be have a subjective consciouness? Will they be the
first to see the universe in it's objective light?
Bill Roh
Sodom