> Sodom wrote:
>
> > There is no reason to suspect that the cause of internal voices is anything
> > other than delusion. There is no shred of evidence to support the opinion that the
> > messages people hear in their heads come from an external source, and there is good
> > evidence to suppose that it is wholly internal. Its called by many names, and there
> > are many medications for it.
>
> This type of thinking grates on my poor nerves.
I guess using rational thought process is tough on some poeple who arent used to it. I
never said something is or isn't. Such absolutes dont exist in my thinking process (and
if I catch myself, or someone here catches me using absolutes, please let me know so I
may remedy the situation)
>
> Perhaps you'd care to suggest that the evidence was in fact there, but I
> was too
> blind to see it? Perhaps, having chosen to see my wife in a certain
> light had clouded
> my vision such that any evidence demonstrated was assimilated by my mind
> in a way that
> it was neutralized. Ie., I was dumb. Could very well be. And what makes
> you so sure
> you're any different?
Yes, i am very different, after years and years of working on it, I do not come to
conclusions, I do not have the word "faith" as a functioning aspect of my personality. I
believe in nothing as fact and think in terms of more likely and less likely and
unknown.
>
>
> > I would suspect that it is common for people to hear voices - those with messed
> > up psyches get medicated, become fanatics, go insane, whatever.
>
> Of course, whenever someone doesn't see the world and its workings in
> the same way as
> someone else does (within a certain matrix of variance), one is quite
> willing to
> dismiss that person's reality as messed up and due to variable X,
> variable Y, and
> blah blah blah. "There must be a reason their sight is warped. I mean
> heck, they
> don't see what I see."
No two people can see anything the same way - at least not so far as I have seen, heard
of or experienced. There are so many self-imposed filters in the mind that to suggest
that any two people can share an experience exactly seems to me to be extremely unlikely.
However, that does not mean that there cannot be a concensus on observable event. There
can also be a concensus on the dangers or sanity of an individual. As sanity is a complex
issue, until the last 20 years or so, i dont think we really had a grasp of the chemistry
involved, and so most of the insane suffered at the hands of doctors, not improved.
>
>
> Now, I'm not trying to suggest that when people hear some voice in their
> head, be it zeus
> or the Christian God or aliens from mars, that they are in fact hearing
> zeus/etc. What I am
> suggesting is that one shouldn't be too quick to dismiss the subjective
> reality of others,
> because quite simply... yours is subjective too.
I feel just the opposite. All subjective observtion is bunk. It is simply mental art and
has no basis in objective reality. Mine too. My subjective observation is the same and i
question all significant thoughts and emotions I have. I go to Marriage counseling about
every two weeks, to help my wife through some difficult issues she has, and our counselor
has suggested that I am rare in that I am "anti-phobic". I simply cannot remember the
feeling of fear, not since I was little. Without fear, it is easy to examine one's
motivations and subjective observations. If I throw out all the subjective info my mind
puts together for me, 99% or so, I am left with somthing a little closer to what reality
might be (I hope).
>
>
> If you want to hear my own views on the voices some people claim to
> hear, I'll re-assure you
> that I-too believe the individual is merely speaking to himself, so to
> speak. I've told a few
> Christians, in fact, that they should stop externalizing their own sense
> of authority; to reclaim
> their sense of worth; to return their morality to where it belongs..
> within themselves. I have
> great pity for them.. to be so insecure that they have to extranalize
> their worth to a
> metaphorically entity. Ah-well.
Ahh - now here I agree whole heartedly
>
>
> Then again.. Who am I to say what is right? Maybe my own 'sense of self'
> is just another
> metaphor.
>
> > As for the uniqueness, I would agree that all grains of sand are unique unto
> > themselves, but in a sea of sand, the concept of uniqueness because trivial - So I
> > agree - it is bunk.
>
> I don't... What about chaos theory? (An aside: I've been playing with
> the idea that the mind is a
> strange attractor. I'm not confident enough to say it is, or even to try
> defend the
> idea. But the relationship fascinates me.)
>
I am not familiar enough with chaos theory to posit a response, so if you would
enlighten me, i would be pleased. Thanks
Glad to see you participating - I like some of your ideas and look forward to a response.
Sodom
I have seen the lava light, and it is good