> Tim wrote:
> > You must understand that I see all ideas, beliefs, memes (if you will)
as
> > `tools'.
>
> Ok... but these things... ideas, beliefs, memes... are not just tools...
> either.
"Just"?!? What do you mean by, "just"?
> Let me make my own example. A computer is a tool. Many people do not
> become obsessed with them to the extent that they try to learn how they
work or
> what you can do with them to make the world a better place... then there
are
> the others (I am in this camp) who see in a computer a chance for
something
> better (and a risk as well) for mankind.
You could be talking about memes, ideas or beliefs so far.
> I use a computer to write with. I use a pencil to write with. I have no
> investment in my relationship with my pencil. I can (and used to) use it
to
> reach out to those people I wanted to be with but could not due to
distance and
> time. Today I use my computer for the same purpose. Perhaps I could
have
> found the same symbolic aspect ... the same metaphor in the pencil.
You would if you had understood the metaphor first. You use the computer
to write *and* send the mail. The computer is not analogous to a pencil.
It is more like pencil, paper, envelope, stamp, mailbox, and the entire
world wide infrastructure of postal systems and mail carriers that ensure
your letter makes it to its destination.
Use the pencil all you want--you won't be communicating until you get that
piece of paper to someone else to read it.
> > All memes are tools, each with varying degrees of refinement in
different
> > applications.
>
> All memes in the same way to me are more than mere tools as what I am at
the
> heart of me is the sum total of these values, ideas, beliefs, etc
MERE TOOLS!?!?!?? The "mere"-ness of the tool you're reading from right
now separates your tool use from that of a chimp using a stick to fish for
termites! There is nothing "mere" about the difference between your
society, as a result of its tools, and the chimps. If you take the amazing
powers of the tools YOU use for granted, that is your issue--do not project
it on ME!
The computer you use requires just as complex an infrastructure for it to
sit on your desk. From the mines to unearth the minerals in the wiring, to
the schools to train the engineers that designed it, even to having a
stable enough Govt. so businesses are able to provide power and phone
service on a (mostly) continual basis, the computer on your desk need a
complex web of other tools and tool use in order for you to use it.
Just as your ACIM requires a complex web of other memes (from the
Judeo-Christian tradition to Buddhist non-violence techniques, to the
`golden rule' learned as children) to support it. Some are unaware of that
web of interconnection and blindly go about labeling others tool/meme use
as useless and work to undermine it. Skeptics are good at that.
(This, of course, is the same mentality that cut down all the yew trees in
the Pacific NW, thinking they were `just another tree' before someone
discovered their bark contained a chemical compound that cures some
cancers. Now there are not enough of the slow-growing trees left to
extract a useful amout of the compounds from.)
> I define myself by them.
We all define ourselves by our tools and how we use them. (And technique is
a learned tool as well.) Because a thing is a tool, does not mean it
cannot be a significant thing as well.
> Have you ever seen the movie "Shirley Valentine"...
I don't believe so. Should I?
> Where do you teach Tim?
Teach? I don't teach. I profess. I rant. I carry on. I spout words and
wave my arms wildly about my head. I stand on the streetcorner, pants
around my ankles, shouting at an uninterested crowd. (Okay, maybe that is
a little like teaching, come to think of it.)
And sometimes people seem to get something out of what I say. Often much
more than I put into it, I must confess. (But the same can be said of my
art, as well.)
> Marie who wonders if she has the credentials to create her own meme
space?
-Prof. Tim, who operates his own press and prints the credentials he needs
as he goes. (Tool use, again ;-)