virus: Re: pagan festivals

Ken Pantheists (
Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:15:14 +0000

Lior wrote:
Who gave you this translation?
It's wrong anyway, sorry.

No need to apologize, it happens :)
A Byzantine Catholic priest friend named Michael gave me the
translation. He says it is the Bulgate translation from latin, not
hebrew. I may have collapsed the meaning of it when I referred to the
condition of Michael and Lucifer after the war: Michael retaining both
likeness and appearance of god, where Lucifer retains onlty the

I also inaccurately (grammar mistake) said that one third of the rebel
angels were cast out. I meant the one third that were rebellious.

Lior wrote:
The name Michael literally means "Who's like (the) God?" in Hebrew - A
rhetorical question used for the praise of God.

Yes, when god asks "servium?" Michael's response is yes, for who is like
unto god? (or the god)

A similar rhetorical
question relates to the story of Hannuka, it can be discussed in the
future Virus Christmas page in case it turns PC.
Mi = who ; cha = abbreviation of che + ha = like\as + the ; el = God.
That 'who' isn't used as a relative pronoun as suggested in your
translation, but rather as an ordinary question word.
That's a classic case of unintentional distortion caused by recurrent

Well put. I can see now how there are so many churches. Just the issue
of transubstansiation alone is a wierd one.

As for Alchemy Mindworks, it seems like I've propagated commercial ads
under the cover of concrete scientific facts. I sincerely beg your
pardon for it.

No problem. I got a chuckle out of the page. I can see that you know
what you are talking about.

You know, I just thought of something kind of funny. It kind of relates
to something we were kicking around on the Brain tennis discussion a few
weeks ago. (I'll have to go back and read.)

For all the faith we put in memetics as "the" tool for "bringing down"
those religions-- it really doesn't do a good job.

Every one of my religious friends, (and there are a lot.. from all
religions-- including a psychic/seer) none of them are threatened by
memetics at all. In fact it kind of turns them on. It talks about the
same stuff they've spent their careers contemplating.

Granted, the religious people I am referring to are pretty decent--
liberal minded clergy with all kinds of academic background and
compassionate-- not the typical power tripping parish priest. Parish
life actually ground these people down to a point that they "had" to get
out for a while.

I guess there are people who just want to know whether masturbation is
Right or Wrong.

Getting back to the thought. I've heard the story of Michael and Lucifer
a few times, but it has left me with a different impression this time.

(The power of parable and inaccurate memes, eh Richard?)

On the surface one reads a power stuggle where the revolutionary Lucifer
gets trounced for going against authority. (A reading I carried for
years from my youth) But in fact Lucifer does not go against an
authority figure. He goes against the authority of "everything" (god,
universe, truth etc. etc.) thinking himself better than this
"everything". The casting out of lucifer is the casting out of the
over-indulged ego. Servium?, does not refer to servitude to a guy in a
white beard, but servitude to the "everything" because no one person is
like this "everything" and it can't dominate you like a person (or a
Lucifer) can.

I find it interesting how this paralells the Journey of the scientist.

Oh, I just noticed that it's Sunday.... I guess I missed my calling as a
Sunday School Teacher :)

Ken Pantheists                   
Virus Theatre         
TooBa Physical Theatre Centre