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If by "experientially", you mean *humanistically* and define this according to human error (as opposed to logic), then I agree that this is our point of divergence. Though our point of departure is, more accurately, that I do not believe in error, chaos, or "will" (force)-- and define these in relation to "the right to be wrong" (such that chaos defines the potential to act counter to logic, error is rationalized by "freedom", and will is self-justification [freedom FROM order, freedom TO err, power to create disorder]).
I understand that in oppressive situations, order tends to imply SOMEONE ELSE'S order so that freedom tends to imply freedom FROM order. But, I use *freedom* as in "freedom from chance". This allows that both freedom and order are in line with one's OWN awareness (and that this awareness is founded upon a necessary truth).
I side WITH those who represent order but only to the degree that the order they represent does not involve force. And I side AGAINST those who use the potential for force which is inherent in orderliness as an excuse to justify forced error (as if the power of those who represent order justifies the will of those who represent chaos).
Though chaos MIGHT be deviation from chance toward an inherent disorderliness (as freedom might either be freedom from chance or freedom from order); this should not justify the idealization of disorder as an excuse to maintain force against force.
Brett Lane Robertson
Indiana, USA
http://www.window.to/mindrec
MindRecreation Metaphysical Assn.
BIO: http://members.theglobe.com/bretthay
...........
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--WebTV-Mail-962263515-5613 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.98) by postoffice-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:30:08 -0700 (PDT)
mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id LAA13855; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by maxwell.kumo.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09801 for virus-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:17:23 -0600From: "psypher" <overload@fastmail.ca>
> chance-- correlations about a mean of zero objects which show a
> deviation attributed to degrees of freedom
>
> freedom-- the sum of all possible chance correlations
>
> order-- the construct which results from resolving all hypothetical
> negations and theoretical suppositions. (ie. chance)... a symbolic
> manifestation which logically expresses this resolution (ie.
> freedom)... the action of existence which makes possible this
> construction and symbolization (ie. a "chance" deviation from
> "freedom"
>
> As such: Chaos-- the "remainder" allowed for by chance. (If the
sum
> of all possible correlations about the mean of zero were stated such
> that zero was absolute, whereby chance represented degrees of
> certainty, such that order applied to only hypotheticals and
> theoreticals, and in a way that abstractions could be said to
control
> for their own abstract nature; then, what exists might be said to
> exist by "chance" to a 100% certainty and to be "ordered" from a 0%
> agreement to absolute freedom).
...I begin to see our point of divergence. You, for whatever reason, choose to circumscribe your universe to those things which can be described through the tools of mathematics and statistice. I choose to inhabit a universe which can only be described experientially.
-psypher
> psypher... the view represented by "chaos" (above) is rationally
> correct though logically absurd... similarly, the proposed
> construction of order (as defined) from freedom (as defined)
violates
> the "laws" of chance as defined (a result of the attempt to make
> chaos logical with regard to these terms)
>
> ... the only resolution is to say that chance itself is
> misrepresented when stated as "the correlation of degrees of
> theoretical freedom about a hypothetical mean of zero relationships"
> when in fact this should be stated that *chance* is "the sum of all
> errors about an *order* to 100% hypothetical and 100% theoretical
> degrees of necessity about a mean of one."*
>
> *whereby your "will" can be defined as the right to be wrong [re:
> chaos] and your "consciousness" can be seen as the constructed
> justification for error
>
> Brett Lane Robertson
> Indiana, USA
> http://www.window.to/mindrec
> MindRecreation Metaphysical Assn.
> BIO: http://members.theglobe.com/bretthay
> ...........
> Put your item up for auction! Bid on hot opportunities! Click HERE
> to view great deals!:
> http://www.utrade.com/index.htm?MID=59876
>
>
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> From: "psypher" <overload@fastmail.ca>
> Subject: Re: virus: Consciousness and Will (was "Maxims")
> To: virus@lucifer.com
> Message-Id: <199904181035a4888>
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> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:35:15 -0400 (EDT)
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>
> ...I need some clarity here. I think I object to several things, but
> I want to make sure we've got some common terminology before I go
> spouting off.
>
> As such, when
>> talking about how "all things" are abstracted to an "at once",
>> "sum of all CHANCE" (not the sum of all "order") is the symbolic >> *CONSTRUCT* called *order*.
>> establish order from chance by way of consciousness (see post on >> quality).
>> Because of this, it is wrong to call consciousness "will". *Will* >> is the construct, order, which justifies chance (by way of >> consciousness) as that which exists contrary to freedom
>> >> Brett Lane Robertson >> Indiana, USA >> http://www.window.to/mindrec >> MindRecreation Metaphysical Assn. >> BIO: http://members.theglobe.com/bretthay >> ........... >> Put your item up for auction! Bid on hot opportunities! Click HERE >> to view great deals!: >> http://www.utrade.com/index.htm?MID=59876> _ http://fastmail.ca Fastmail's Free web based email for
> ____________________________________________________________________
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