logo Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
2025-04-05 17:18:39 CoV Wiki
Learn more about the Church of Virus
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Read the first edition of the Ideohazard

  Church of Virus BBS
  General
  Serious Business

  Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss.
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Reply Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
   Author  Topic: Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss.  (Read 1820 times)
Hermit
Archon
*****

Posts: 4289
Reputation: 8.50
Rate Hermit



Prime example of a practically perfect person

View Profile WWW
Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss.
« on: 2007-11-17 13:25:29 »
Reply with quote

Bush's Favorite Lie

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Neck Deep: The Disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush, was written with two of his sons, Sam and Nat, and can be ordered at neckdeepbook.com. His two previous books, Secrecy & Privilege: The Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq and Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth' are also available there. Or go to Amazon.com.

Source: Consortium News
Authors:Robert Parry
Dated: 2007-11-09

When cataloguing George W. Bush’s lies – even if you stick just to his fabrications about the Iraq War and the “war on terror” – there are so many to choose from, it’s hard to pick a favorite.

There’s the one about how before Sept. 11, 2001, Americans thought that “oceans protected us” – although perhaps not from Soviet intercontinental ballistic missiles armed with nuclear warheads, which during the Cold War had school children hiding under desks and homeowners buying bomb shelters.

After taking office in January 2001, Bush was so confident about the protective oceans that he pushed aggressively for a "Star Wars" missile defense system.

Or there’s Bush’s oft-repeated claim that al-Qaeda terrorists are poised to dominate the world through a caliphate “stretching from Spain to Indonesia,” though in reality they are a bunch of crazed misfits forcibly exiled from their own countries and now living in caves along the Afghan-Pakistani border.

Bush also insists that Americans must heed what Osama bin Laden says, like when this homicidal maniac supposedly calls Iraq the “central front” in the “war on terror,” the American people must keep troops there indefinitely.

But it’s never explained why it makes sense for the United States to let bin Laden’s public declarations shape Washington’s policies.

There’s a chance, you see, that bin Laden is either completely nuts or perhaps clever enough to bait Bush into taking actions that actually help al-Qaeda, like getting the United States bogged down in Iraq, alienating the Muslim world and diverting military resources away from where bin Laden is hiding.

Indeed, the evidence from captured (internal rather than public) al-Qaeda communications indicates that bin Laden’s high command considers Afghanistan and Pakistan – not Iraq – their central front.

In 2005, for instance, one intercepted letter, purportedly written by al-Qaeda’s No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahiri, asked fighters in Iraq to send $100,000 to headquarters back on the Afghan-Pakistani border. If Bush were right – and al-Qaeda considered Iraq the “central front” – one might expect that the money would be going in the opposite direction. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “Al-Qaeda’s Fragile Foothold.”]

Personal Favorite

But my personal favorite Bush lie is when he insists that the United States invaded Iraq to enforce a United Nations resolution and that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein “chose war” by barring U.N. weapons inspectors.

Bush dusted off that old canard on Nov. 7 while standing next to French President Nicolas Sarkozy during a press conference at George Washington’s estate at Mount Vernon in Virginia.

Responding to a question from a French journalist about Bush’s dispute with France over the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, the U.S. president said:

“We had a difference of opinion with your great country over whether or not I should have used military force to enforce U.N. demands. … I just want to remind you that [U.N. Resolution] 1441 was supported by France and the United States, which clearly said to the dictator, you will disclose, disarm, or face serious consequences. Now, I'm the kind of person that when somebody says something, I take them for their word.”

Bush has made this same false argument scores of times dating back to July 2003, several months after the invasion when it was becoming clear that Saddam Hussein had told the truth when his government reported to the U.N. in 2002 that Iraq’s WMD stockpiles had been eliminated.

Hussein also relented in fall 2002, allowing U.N. weapons inspectors to travel freely around Iraq checking out suspected WMD sites. The U.N. inspectors found nothing and reported growing Iraqi cooperation in the early months of 2003. In other words, Hussein was complying with Resolution 1441
.

Nevertheless, Bush was determined to invade Iraq and tried to get the U.N. Security Council to go along. However, France and most other members of the Security Council rebuffed Bush and sought more time for the inspectors.

Then, in defiance of the U.N. – and in violation of the U.N. Charter which prohibits aggressive wars – Bush forced out the U.N. inspectors and launched his “shock and awe” assault. After a bloody three-week campaign, U.S.-led forces toppled Hussein’s government, but found no WMD caches.


Instead of admitting the obvious facts – that he had launched an unprovoked war on false pretenses – Bush rewrote the history. Starting at a White House press briefing on July 14, 2003, Bush began insisting that he had no choice but to invade Iraq because Hussein wouldn’t let the U.N. inspectors in.

Bush told reporters: “We gave him [Saddam Hussein] a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn’t let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power.”


Bush’s Litany

Facing no contradiction from the White House press corps, Bush repeated this lie in varied forms over the next four-plus years as part of his litany defending the invasion.

On Jan. 27, 2004, for example, Bush said, “We went to the United Nations, of course, and got an overwhelming resolution – 1441 – unanimous resolution, that said to Saddam, you must disclose and destroy your weapons programs, which obviously meant the world felt he had such programs. He chose defiance. It was his choice to make, and he did not let us in.

As the years went by, Bush’s lie and its unchallenged retelling took on the color of truth.

At a March 21, 2006, news conference, Bush again blamed the war on Hussein’s defiance of U.N. demands for unfettered inspections.

I was hoping to solve this [Iraq] problem diplomatically,” Bush said. “The world said, ‘Disarm, disclose or face serious consequences.’ … We worked to make sure that Saddam Hussein heard the message of the world. And when he chose to deny the inspectors, when he chose not to disclose, then I had the difficult decision to make to remove him. And we did.

At a press conference on May 24, 2007, Bush offered a short-hand version, even inviting the journalists to remember the invented history.

As you might remember back then, we tried the diplomatic route: [U.N. Resolution] 1441 was a unanimous vote in the Security Council that said disclose, disarm or face serious consequences. So the choice was his [Hussein’s] to make. And he made a choice that has subsequently caused him to lose his life. [Hermit: Note the use of the passive voice here! It is a classic obfuscation.]

Not only have Washington journalists stayed consistently silent in the face of this false history, some have even adopted Bush’s lie as their own. For instance, in a July 2004 interview, ABC’s veteran newsman Ted Koppel used it to explain why he – Koppel – thought the invasion of Iraq was justified.

“It did not make logical sense that Saddam Hussein, whose armies had been defeated once before by the United States and the Coalition, would be prepared to lose control over his country if all he had to do was say, ‘All right, U.N., come on in, check it out,’” Koppel told Amy Goodman, host of “Democracy Now.”

Of course, Hussein did tell the U.N. to “come on in, check it out.” But that was in the real world, not in the faux reality that governs modern Washington.

Bush’s Iraq lies are now entering a new political generation, seeping into Campaign 2008. At the Republican debate on June 5, 2007, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney defended Bush’s invasion on the grounds that Hussein refused to let U.N. weapons inspectors in to search for WMD.

If Saddam “had opened up his country to I.A.E.A. inspectors, and they’d come in and they’d found that there were no weapons of mass destruction,” the war might have been averted, Romney said.

Not surprisingly, Romney’s false statement was no more challenged by the CNN debate moderators than Bush’s earlier versions had been. By constant repetition, Bush has transformed his lie into what passes for truth in modern American politics.
« Last Edit: 2007-11-17 13:26:40 by Hermit » Report to moderator   Logged

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
MoEnzyme
Initiate
*****

Gender: Male
Posts: 2256
Reputation: 5.40
Rate MoEnzyme



infidel lab animal

View Profile WWW
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #1 on: 2007-11-20 14:09:00 »
Reply with quote

I find the most interesting shifts happening in the midst of policy debates.  First it was mission accomplished until it was obvious that the troops weren't coming home, and so there was some admission that mission wasn't accomplished and never was in order to justify the extended stay. Then supposedly everything was going well or just turning better, until the need for the surge/escalation is introduced, and then suddenly we get admissions that things aren't going well (and impliedly never were) to justify the build up. Now we get another set of rosey colored assesments that Al Qeda is on the run and scared and lots of military success reports.

Oh yes "people are talking to each other" passes for good political news even though no significant progress on the benchmarks has been made which of course is the real issue. I'm hearing glowing reports about how Iraqi Christians are being invited in . . . huh? I mean I'm sure there are *some* of those, but not many.  They aren't one of the major sectarian political factions.  Talk about narrowing the context to some tiny group in order to cherry pick a small piece of good news for the Fox/neo-con noise machine. Of course since they are Christian that gets attention in the US even if they are browner and speak less English than Jesus did.

Living in the US and understanding the real news on Iraq anymore becomes more of a practice of listening to what ISN'T said and ignoring everything that is.  Basically if its something "Salamantis" is cutting and pasting, or Fox news is talking about, you can and probably should just ignore it .  If its something they AREN'T talking about (for example something from a foreign or non-neo-con source) its probably worth at least  considering.  Thank Dog for the internet; I don't know how the other 70% of the population would overcome such propagandizing without it.  I'm surprised anybody believes anything these people say anymore. Apparently there is a constant 25-30% of Americans who will believe anything this "good Christian man" and his administration tell them no matter how many times they've been lied to before. Talk about dogmatic faith.
« Last Edit: 2007-11-20 14:15:56 by Mo » Report to moderator   Logged

I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme


(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
MoEnzyme
Initiate
*****

Gender: Male
Posts: 2256
Reputation: 5.40
Rate MoEnzyme



infidel lab animal

View Profile WWW
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #2 on: 2007-11-20 14:53:03 »
Reply with quote

I think Bush has repeated the lie so much he probably believes it now.
Report to moderator   Logged

I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme


(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #3 on: 2007-12-16 16:51:59 »
Reply with quote

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

Report to moderator   Logged
Hermit
Archon
*****

Posts: 4289
Reputation: 8.50
Rate Hermit



Prime example of a practically perfect person

View Profile WWW
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #4 on: 2007-12-19 21:17:06 »
Reply with quote

Bush Probably Received New Iran Intel Last Winter

[ Hermit: I do wish that our local neoconehead troll would post on his on threads so he could simply be ignored, rather than interjecting off-topic and irrelevant posts based on AM radio show allegations. That said, this story just keeps getting clearer. Which may be why the neoconeheads are trying to avoid it. ]

Source: Inter Press Service
Authors: Gareth Porter (Historian and author, his latest book is Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam (University of California Press)).
Dated: 2007-12-18

White House officials have now admitted that George W. Bush was told that the intelligence assessment on a covert Iranian nuclear program might change last August, but they have avoided answering the question of when the president was first informed about the new intelligence that led to that revised assessment.

That evasion is necessary, it now appears, to conceal the fact that Bush likely knew about that intelligence as early as February or March 2007.


The White House evasions began on the day the "key judgments" in the Iran National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) were released. At his Dec. 3 press conference, National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley was asked, "So was it recent weeks that this intelligence came in?" Hadley answered, "What the intelligence community has said is in the last few months."

In fact, no intelligence official had commented on when the crucial intelligence had been first obtained.

Then a journalist asked, "Steve, when was the first time the president was given the inkling of something? … Was this months ago, when the first information started to become available to intelligence agencies?" This time Hadley responded, "You ought to go back to the intelligence community."

The evidence now available strongly suggests, however, that Hadley dodged the question not because he did not know the answer, but because he did not wish to reveal that Bush had been informed about the new intelligence months before the August meeting with Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell.

The key development that altered the course of the National Intelligence Estimate on Iran, according to intelligence sources, was the defection of a senior official of the Iranian Ministry of Defense, Ali Reza Asgari, on a visit to Turkey last February, as widely reported in international news media in subsequent weeks. The Washington Post's Dafna Linzer, citing a "senior U.S. official," reported on March 8 that Asgari, who had been deputy minister of defense for eight years under the reformist President Mohammad Khatami from 1997 to 2005, was already providing information to U.S. intelligence.

The senior official told Linzer, however, that Asgari was not being questioned about Iran's nuclear program, despite the fact that Asgari certainly had significant knowledge of policy decisions, if not technical details, of the nuclear program That incongruous denial that Asgari had anything to say about Iran's nuclear program suggested that the information being provided by Asgari on that subject was considered extraordinarily sensitive.

Intelligence officials have kept any reference to Asgari out of the discussion of the NIE. Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi has told IPS, however, that, according to intelligence sources, information provided by Asgari was indeed a "key component" of the intelligence community's conclusion that Iran ended its nuclear weapons-related work in 2003, although it was corroborated by other sources.

Giraldi says Asgari had been recruited by Turkish intelligence in 2003, and defected to Turkey after he had picked up indications that Iranian intelligence had become suspicious of him. Giraldi said his sources confirm press reports that Asgari came out with "bags of documents." Intelligence officials have confirmed that papers on military discussions of the nuclear program were part of the evidence that led the analysts to the new conclusion about the Iranian nuclear program.

Equally important to the NIE's conclusion, according to Giraldi, was the information provided by Asgari about the Iranian defense communications system that allowed U.S. intelligence to gain new access to sensitive communications within the Iranian military. That was a crucial to the intercepted electronic communications which also played a role in the analysis that led to the estimate's conclusion.


Gary Sick, who was the principal White House aide on Iran during the Carter administration and is now a senior research scholar at the Middle East Institute of Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs, says he believes Asgari's knowledge of the debate in Tehran's defense establishment also may have allowed the intelligence community to identify which intercepted communications were most important.

"There are zillions of pieces of evidence, and what you look for is defined by what you know," says Sick. "What Asgari gave them was a new way of looking at the evidence."

There are other indications that, by April 2007, the intelligence community was already intensively reviewing new evidence provided by Asgari and old evidence that the new information suggested could corroborate it. Thomas Fingar, chair of the National Intelligence Council, who was directing the whole NIE process, gave an exclusive interview to NPR's Mary Louis Kelly on April 27 in which he dropped hints of the new phase of the NIE process.

Fingar referred to "some new information we have" and declared, "We are serious about reexamining old evidence." Fingar even said that the estimated time frame for Iran's obtaining a nuclear weapon "might change," because "we are being completely open-minded and taking a fresh look at the subject."

It now seems clear that these were references to the search for corroboration of the basic intelligence obtained from Asgari about the Iranian nuclear program. But Fingar misled listeners about the direction of the intelligence community's investigation by seeming to suggest that advances in Iranian uranium enrichment announced earlier that month might cause analysts to shorten the minimum time frame within which Iran might have sufficient fissile material for a bomb.

Fingar said the evidence that Iran was beginning to enrich on an "industrial scale" was "one of the questions we have got to weigh the new information to see what it does to our judgment." He also referred to International Atomic Energy Agency reports on the Iranian program, allowing listeners to infer that that the delay in the NIE was due to new evidence that would lead to a more alarmist estimate on Iran's nuclear program

The Fingar interview suggests that the process of seeking corroboration of the 2003 change in nuclear policy in Iran was already well underway in April.

The intelligence on the Iranian nuclear program obtained as a result of the U.S. debriefing of Asgari, however, would have been made available to Bush as soon as it was evaluated as important by the intelligence officials. The debriefing of a high-ranking defector represents very important intelligence, and summaries of the most important information from such a debriefing would normally go into the Presidential Daily Brief (PDB), the summary of key intelligence developments that is prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency each night and given to the White House the first thing the next morning.

"It is inconceivable to me that the PDB did not included whatever information Asgari gave us on the nuclear program," says Ray McGovern, a 26-year veteran of CIA who once presented the daily briefing to Richard Nixon. Furthermore, every major new development in the collection of intelligence obtained as a result of Asgari's debriefings would have been included in the PDB, according to McGovern.


Contrary to Hadley's suggestion that he didn't know when Bush had first gotten the new intelligence, moreover, McGovern points out that the national security adviser has gotten the same PDB as the president for decades. The former CIA analyst told IPS that Hadley certainly would have known when the new intelligence regarding the covert Iranian nuclear weapons program was presented to the president.
Report to moderator   Logged

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #5 on: 2007-12-20 05:38:32 »
Reply with quote

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

Report to moderator   Logged
Hermit
Archon
*****

Posts: 4289
Reputation: 8.50
Rate Hermit



Prime example of a practically perfect person

View Profile WWW
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #6 on: 2007-12-21 11:49:33 »
Reply with quote

No More Slam Dunks

[ Hermit : In any zero-sum-game analysis, Israel is the major "loser" of the NIE. Rather than its puppet-enabler having to once again carry the brunt of the cost of attacking its perceived enemy, Israel perceives the collapse of its preferred policy of being the power behind the strike; where the US would strike a blow on its behalf, while simultaneously protecting Israel from International disapprobation. The result is that the Zionist networks and their stooges around the world have apparently gone into a frenzy of activity based entirely on brazen lies and visibly speculative pseudo-analysis attempting to force an unprovoked, "preemptive" (aka illegal war of aggression) attack on Iran by the US (or failing all else Israel) as "the only possible conclusion." To any partially rational person, this ought to be seen as being enlightening and instructive (as well as a sick joke), as the only people to whom this leap of faith makes sense are those advocating a Zionist perspective (and anti Islam aggression) to the exclusion of all other perspectives, without reason or consideration, and so can be taken as a reliable indicator of these cats-paws. ]

A reality-based assessment of Iran’s nuclear capability

Source: The American Conservative
Authors: Philip Giraldi (Former CIA Officer, is a partner in Cannistraro Associates.)
Dated: 2007-12-21 (For publication in the 2008-01-14 Issue)

The bombshell National Intelligence Estimate on Iran’s nuclear program asserted with a “high degree of certainty” that Tehran had abandoned its nuclear weapons in 2003 due to international pressure and as part of a negotiated agreement with the Europeans. The report stated that even if Tehran were to restart its program, it would not have enough highly enriched uranium for a weapon until 2010 at the earliest.

The NIE is widely seen as a decisive blow to the neoconservatives and Bush administration hawks who have been advocating a preemptive attack on Iran, depriving them of their principle casus belli. They have counterattacked, claiming that the report is based on flawed information or even Iranian disinformation, that the CIA has a history of poor analysis of proliferation issues, and that a politicized intelligence community is out to get the White House and/or Israel.

The political landscape in Washington has not yet shifted dramatically. By demonstrating that Iran has acted as a rational player, the report gives advocates of negotiations without preconditions a stronger hand. Those who still seek war have already re-written their talking points. They argue that as Iranian intentions and plans remain suspect, Teheran must be denied any ability to enrich uranium. On Dec. 4, President Bush stated that the military option remains on the table, while warning seven times that Tehran might use “knowledge” of how to enrich uranium to secretly construct a bomb. Other administration spokesmen have insisted that Iran must be denied the engineering infrastructure to manage the nuclear fuel cycle, even for peaceful purposes. The White House has asserted that it still regards Iran as its major foreign-policy problem.

An alarmed Israel, where the report’s conclusions have been rejected by both politicians and media, is considering taking unilateral action against the principle Iranian nuclear facility at Natanz. If Israel were to attack Iran, it would need Washington’s help, and U.S. forces would almost certainly be involved in any Iranian retaliation.

The history of how the NIE was developed provides an effective rebuke to those attacking it. Since late 2006, the White House has been aware that the NIE would not confirm the existence of an Iranian weapons program. In January 2007, John Negroponte resigned as director of national intelligence because he backed his analysts and refused to order the rewriting of the key judgments that appeared in the NIE draft. Vice President Dick Cheney’s office subsequently demanded several revisions and numerous reviews of the source material. Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell is loyal to the president, but, like Negroponte, was unwilling to alter the conclusions for the White House, and the administration eventually became resigned to a final report that it knew would contradict policy.

Contrary to administration claims, when conclusive new intelligence demonstrating that the Iranians had cancelled their weapons program became available in early summer 2007, the White House was informed. It is no coincidence that President Bush and his aides soon began to downplay Iranian nukes and started to emphasize “they’re killing our soldiers” to make its case against Tehran. In November, McConnell, under pressure from Congress to finish the NIE, agreed to White House demands that it be kept classified, but when the report was finally completed a month later, an unclassified summary was prepared because of concerns that inevitable leaks by Democrats in Congress would make it appear that the administration was again deceiving the American people.

The actual NIE process makes clear how impossible it would be to cook the books in order to damage the administration. Sixteen separate intelligence agencies contribute to the report and must concur on key judgments. In the case of the Iran NIE, every detail of evidence for the report’s conclusions was looked at repeatedly and from all angles. In the classified version, there are more than 1,500 footnotes describing the sources used. When the draft came to tentative conclusions, the findings were attacked by analysts acting as a “red team” to determine if there were flaws in the analysis or whether Iranian disinformation was being used to mislead CIA analysts. This process was repeated over and over again until everyone was satisfied with the results. A final no-holds-barred review took place in the White House in mid-November, attended by Bush, Cheney, Robert Gates, Condoleezza Rice, and senior staff members, where objections to sourcing and conclusions were aired. No agenda-driven judgments could possibly survive the process.

The claim that the CIA has historically had trouble reporting accurately on proliferation is based on the 2002 and 2005 Iraq and Iran NIE’s. Reporting on Russia, China, India, Pakistan, and the A.Q. Khan network was also flawed. But the 2007 Iran NIE should be judged on its merits because intelligence is not a science but a process, based on the best assessment of available information.

After the fiasco of the Iraq NIE, the Agency took a hard look at what had gone wrong. It decided that there were three issues that produced bad analysis: poor information sources resulting in “garbage in, garbage out,” political pressure to make the intelligence match the policy, and “groupthink” where assumptions based on past intelligence shape the current analysis.

To address the poor information problem, the Agency launched a major operation against Iran designated the “Persian House,” involving 175 case officers and 35 analysts. It also aggressively went after traveling Iranian officials and businessmen in Europe and the Persian Gulf, most particularly in Dubai, where the Iranian government actively does business to avoid sanctions enforced elsewhere. The effort was successful and, combined with improved technical collection against Iran, provided a window into the Iranian nuclear program. Key information came from Ali Resa Asghari, a general in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, who was recruited in 2003 and jointly run by the CIA and the Turkish intelligence service, MIT. Before defecting in Istanbul in February, Asghari provided critical intelligence on the Iranian program as well as on Tehran’s defense communications, permitting the NSA and CIA to obtain still more information. The intelligence available to analysts on Iran improved dramatically.

Both the Iraq NIE and the 2005 NIE on Iran suffered from White House staffers, mostly neoconservatives from Vice President Cheney’s office, participating in the review process. To deal with the problem of such political pressure, Director of Central Intelligence Michael Hayden and DNI Mike McConnell isolated analysts from policymakers and also took steps to deal with the groupthink problem. In the 2002 Iraq NIE, the consensus view that Saddam Hussein must have weapons of mass destruction influenced analysis, but proved to be untrue. The Iran NIE was instead constructed from the ground up with every assumption being challenged. The critics of the NIE curiously engage in their own groupthink when they claim that the CIA’s record of failures in the past mean that it has likely failed again. This time, however, the CIA has gotten it right.
Report to moderator   Logged

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #7 on: 2007-12-21 21:05:55 »
Reply with quote

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

Report to moderator   Logged
MoEnzyme
Initiate
*****

Gender: Male
Posts: 2256
Reputation: 5.40
Rate MoEnzyme



infidel lab animal

View Profile WWW
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #8 on: 2007-12-22 00:04:02 »
Reply with quote

I briefly reviewed the flood of cut and pastes that our persistent neocon troll pasted on our thread and decided that rather than wading through the bullshit, I would first rather suggest that our Virian reader review the concept of bullshit.

On Bullshit : Harry G. Frankfurt http://www.churchofvirus.org/bbs/index.php?board=69;action=display;threadid=41692

If you are really bored and have too much time on your hands, then I would only suggest that the troll spewage simply represents bullshit one step removed, seeming to only reflect some vague recognition of the truth - the NIE - or rather of the bullshitter in chief having been caught YET AGAIN showing absolutely NO respect for the truth. How many thousands of more lies does a chronic bullshitter tell than your simple liar? How many thousands of articles of neocon spewage are necessary to justify his reality-challenged arrogant incompetance ass now?

It would seem to me that a marginally competant liar might just innocently say "Ooops. Well, we all make mistakes, but look how well the wars in Iraq and Afganastan did the job in dissuading the Iranians from nuclear weapons.  See the policy is working, and now thankfully we don't have to attack Iran for at least a few more months anyway . . . stay tuned".  But of course he's incapable of such competant lying.  I'd almost be convinced if he were, but incompetant bullshitting is predictable if nothing, and so the neocon choir keep spewing ever more incredulous and more tenuous justifications. The depths of his incompetant bullshit leaves he and all his "thinktankers" irretrievably in idiotic justification mode. So if you really have nothing better to do with your time, you've been warned.

On the other end of the spectrum, to all the outraged anti-war folks, I feel your pain, however please review this from the perspective of bullshit rather than simple lying.

Olbermann to Bush "You Sir, Are a Bold-Faced Liar!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd7LvJBIaNo


Mo to Olbermann, its worse than that, he's a chronic bullshitter. He believes his lies, and thus is incapable of even learning from them. He is incompetant beyond malicious; he's actually incapable of knowing truth in the first place.  And its not because he's stupid; its because he never gave a damn in the first place. Nixon and Clinton were liars; at least they cared a little.

http://www.churchofvirus.org/bbs/index.php?board=69;action=display;threadid=41692
« Last Edit: 2007-12-22 00:31:28 by Mo » Report to moderator   Logged

I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme


(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
Hermit
Archon
*****

Posts: 4289
Reputation: 8.50
Rate Hermit



Prime example of a practically perfect person

View Profile WWW
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #9 on: 2007-12-22 18:16:46 »
Reply with quote

Justifying the Iraq War: Why the NIE Is Wrong

[ Hermit : I like listening carefully to in-field experts when making decisions. James Gordon Prather is a nuclear physicist who served as a policy implementing official for national security-related technical matters in the Federal Energy Agency, the Energy Research and Development Administration, the Department of Energy, the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the Department of the Army. Dr. Prather also served as legislative assistant for national security affairs to U.S. Sen. Henry Bellmon, R-Okla. -- ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee and member of the Senate Energy Committee and Appropriations Committee. Dr. Prather had earlier worked as a nuclear weapons physicist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California and Sandia National Laboratory in New Mexico. ]

Source: Antiwar.com
Authors: Gordon Prather
Dated: 2007-12-22

In case you thought that Bonkers Bolton was finally right about something – that the U.S. Intelligence Community had finally staged a "quasi-putsch," had finally stood up to the Likudniks and assorted neo-crazies hell-bent on launching a "pre-emptive" attack on Iran, had properly assessed the voluminous information the Iranians have made available (voluntarily or upon special request) to the International Atomic Energy Agency about Iran's nuclear programs, and had finally produced a thoroughly professional National Intelligence Estimate [.pdf] on Iran – think again.

First, there is this "assessment";

"We assess with high confidence that until fall 2003, Iranian military entities were working under government direction to develop nuclear weapons."

Followed by this "judgment";

"We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program."

Who's "We"?

Well, many of them are the same folks from the dozen or so "intelligence" gathering and analysis groups scattered throughout the Federal government who produced the October 2002 NIE on Iraq for George "Slam-Dunk" Tenet. (Or was it for Dick Cheney?)

That 2002 NIE totally ignored the best intelligence available on Iraq's nuclear programs, the publicly available IAEA reports, covering the years 1992-2002, documenting the destruction of Iraqi nascent capabilities to produce not-nearly-pure Uranium-235 and crude high-explosive implosion systems with which to compress the U-235 – if and when they ever managed to produce it – to super-criticality.

What that 2002 NIE on Iraq ought to have "assessed" was that until the fall of 1991, Iraqis were working under government direction to develop nuclear weapons.

Then, what that 2002 NIE on Iraq ought to have "judged" was that the first Gulf War and its immediate aftermath put an end to all Iraq's nuclear programs – peaceful and otherwise – and that in succeeding years no effort had been made to resurrect them.

And, finally, in the weeks and months immediately preceding the launch of President George W. Bush's war of aggression, to effect regime change in Iraq, when IAEA Director-General Mohammed ElBaradei and MOVIC Chairman Hans Blix, were regularly testifying before the UN Security Council that Iraq's Full and Final Declaration of its Weapons of Mass Destruction programs appeared to be full, final and accurate, "Slam-Dunk" Tenet just sat there on his hands, when he should have been trying to alert Congress that the 2002 NIE was fatally flawed.

But, this time, for the 2007 NIE on Iran – according to Scott Ritter, former Marine intelligence officer, UN inspector in Iraq, and author of Target
Iran: The Truth About the White House's Plans for Regime Change
– our intelligence community has been working closely with the IAEA inspectors in Iran.

After thousands of man-hours of go-anywhere see-anything inspections, at sites "declared" by the Iranians and at others, some military, suggested by our intelligence community, ElBaradei has declared there is "no indication" that Iran has a nuclear weapons program.

Consequently, a year or so ago our intelligence community sought to revise its 2005 NIE on Iran to reflect what the IAEA was not finding.

So, what's a member of the Cheney Cabal, hell-bent on bombing Iran – with nukes, if necessary – to do?

Well, after holding up its release for more than 10 months, allow our intelligence community to make public its 2007 revision, wherein they make no mention of the IAEA but "assess with high confidence that until fall 2003" ( when ElBaradei began his intrusive inspection campaign) "Iranian military entities were working under government direction to develop nuclear weapons."

[ For the purposes of this Estimate, by "nuclear weapons program" we mean Iran's nuclear weapon design and weaponization work and covert uranium conversion-related and uranium enrichment-related work; we do not mean Iran's declared civil work related to uranium conversion and enrichment. ]

"Military entities"?

Like, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps?

The 125,000-strong elite military entity Bush recently sanctioned under Executive Order 13224 as a "specially designated global terrorist"?

Yep, that's the entity.

But, nuclear weapon design? Covert uranium-conversion? Covert uranium-enrichment?

Well, of course. As everyone knows; "Many of the front companies engaged in procuring nuclear technology are owned and run by the Revolutionary Guards."

How does everyone know that?

Surely you've heard about the "smoking laptop" and the Green Salt project.

According to the Washington Post, the only chronicled activity on that allegedly stolen Iranian laptop – which apparently is the principal basis of the 2007 NIE – that was clearly nuclear-related was the Green Salt Project.

"In the spring of 2001, a small design firm opened shop on the outskirts of Tehran to begin work for what appears to have been its only client – the Iranian Republican Guard. Over the next two years, the staff at Kimeya Madon completed a set of technical drawings for a small uranium-conversion facility, according to four officials who reviewed the documents.

"Several sources with firsthand knowledge of the original documents said the facility, if constructed, would give Iran additional capabilities to produce a substance known as UF4, or 'green salt,' an intermediate product in the conversion of uranium to a gas.
"

Well, if you want to know what a real intelligence professional thinks about the smoking laptop and the 2007 NIE on Iran, please – please – listen to Scott Ritter's December 6, 2007 interview on Antiwar Radio.

After listening to Ritter, you probably won't care much what Henry Kissinger or James Schlesinger or Bonkers Bolton think about it. [ Hermit : Or what our even less informed and blatantly irrational neoconehead, Dees/Salamantis chooses to cut and spew from AM Radio like sources. ]

They're all extremely upset that the 2007 NIE excludes from Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program Iran's IAEA Safeguarded programs.

And you can see why.

As best the IAEA can tell, there is nothing nuclear in Iran that isn't IAEA Safeguarded, as the 2007 NIE now implicitly acknowledges. There's nothing covert – if there ever was – to bomb.

Hence, Kissinger's lament at the "extraordinary spectacle" of the President's National Security Advisor having to defend Bush's ongoing threats to "take-out" Iran's "nuclear weapons program" in the face of the 2007 NIE that judged there isn't one to "take out."

For Kissinger, Schlesinger and the Likudniks, the possible production of almost-pure Uranium-235 in Iran's Safeguarded facilities, for use in nuclear weapons, has been, by far, the greatest danger. Never mind that Iran could not possibly produce, unannounced and undetected, such almost-pure Uranium-235 in an IAEA Safeguarded facility.

In any case, Kissinger, Schlesinger and the Likudniks argue that the principal reason the Iranians "halted" their alleged nuclear weapons program in the fall of 2003 – if they, indeed, did – was that Bush launched his war of aggression on Iraq and they were afraid they would be next.

In other words, the 2007 NIE on Iran justifies Bush's war of aggression against Iraq.

Of course, if Scott Ritter is right, the Iranians never had a nuclear weapons program to halt. And, the Likudniks and the neocrazies have known that all along.  [ Hermit : And like Scott Ritter, Gordon Prather and the FAS, I judge that there is no credible evidence or even a credible suggestion that  Iran has ever had a program seeking to create any form of nuclear weapon. Unlike the USA and Israel who seem to be behind the current ballyhoo. Makes you think, doesn't it?]
« Last Edit: 2007-12-22 18:42:45 by Hermit » Report to moderator   Logged

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #10 on: 2007-12-23 01:26:53 »
Reply with quote

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

« Last Edit: 2007-12-23 01:35:23 by Salamantis » Report to moderator   Logged
MoEnzyme
Initiate
*****

Gender: Male
Posts: 2256
Reputation: 5.40
Rate MoEnzyme



infidel lab animal

View Profile WWW
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #11 on: 2008-01-16 14:14:36 »
Reply with quote

ROFLMFAO!!

Our neo-con troll cites an American opinion poll as an intelligence source to debunk the NIE!

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/general_current_events/just_18_believe_iran_has_stopped_nuclear_weapons_development_program

I usually don't look at his posts unless they happen in the midst of otherwise normal conversation threads, and then only sometimes. I missed this one until I was reviewing the thread today. Unlike his more boring absurdities, that was simply too ridiculous to ignore.
Report to moderator   Logged

I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme


(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
Walter Watts
Archon
*****

Gender: Male
Posts: 1571
Reputation: 8.25
Rate Walter Watts



Just when I thought I was out-they pull me back in

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #12 on: 2008-01-17 00:55:08 »
Reply with quote


Quote from: Mo on 2008-01-16 14:14:36   

ROFLMFAO!!

Our neo-con troll cites an American opinion poll as an intelligence source to debunk the NIE!

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/general_current_events/just_18_believe_iran_has_stopped_nuclear_weapons_development_program

I usually don't look at his posts unless they happen in the midst of otherwise normal conversation threads, and then only sometimes. I missed this one until I was reviewing the thread today. Unlike his more boring absurdities, that was simply too ridiculous to ignore.


DOUBLE ROFLMFAO!!

Thanks Mo. This made my day.

As our dear friend Bugs Bunny used to say:

"What a maroon!"


Walter
Report to moderator   Logged

Walter Watts
Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.


No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!
Salamantis
Neophyte
*****

Posts: 2845
Reputation: 0.00



I'm a llama!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Bushit! Lies the US media does not challenge and warcrimes they don't discuss
« Reply #13 on: 2008-01-17 02:26:38 »
Reply with quote

[[ author reputation (0.00) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

« Last Edit: 2008-01-17 06:54:25 by Salamantis » Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: [1] Reply Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
Jump to:


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Church of Virus BBS | Powered by YaBB SE
© 2001-2002, YaBB SE Dev Team. All Rights Reserved.

Please support the CoV.
Valid HTML 4.01! Valid CSS! RSS feed