TEOTD #39 : the Artifact
« on: 2005-12-03 12:23:03 »
In this thought experiment you discover an ancient artifact. It appears as a small plain box with a dial and a button. The dial can be turned to any number between -100 and +100 inclusive. When you first pick up the box you mysteriously acquire the knowledge of its purpose: When you press the button every live human on Earth will have their IQ adjusted by the amount specified on the dial. Everyone but the person who presses the button, your intelligence will remain unchanged. Only you can use the box and once used the box will disappear. One more thing, if someone's IQ is reduced below 0 they will immediately die. Of course anyone with an IQ below around 40 will need assistance to survive, just as it is now.
You don't know how the artifact works or where it came from. It could be magical, divine, demonic or alien, it doesn't really matter. Assume for the sake of this thought experiment that the box works exactly as described. What do you do?
Re:TEOTD #39 : the Artifact
« Reply #1 on: 2005-12-03 13:28:15 »
Wow, interesting and very tempting. I suppose one could potentially rule the world whith such a device, or at lest become an invaluable part of it.
I Personally would destroy it...thats if it could be destroyed...? If not, then I would propose to fire it of into the depths of space or towards the sun, but such a task might seem futile as governments would ask as to why it is needed, and from what I would guess before you even got to finish, as to the artifacts purpose and your morals, you would either be druged and the artifact gone or more likely thrown out into the street...or maybe worse.
So I guess I would just keep it, if for some reason it couldnt be destroyed, or that whenever I tryed to get rid of it, it just kept coming back to me.
I would then be content with knowing I could become a potential world influence, by lowering it by 100 or so, but not acting on it.
Though I guess the temptation would always be there.
> > In this thought experiment you discover an ancient artifact. It appears as > a small plain box with a dial and a button. The dial can be turned to any > number between -100 and +100 inclusive. When you first pick up the box you > mysteriously acquire the knowledge of its purpose: When you press the > button every live human on Earth will have their IQ adjusted by the amount > specified on the dial. Everyone but the person who presses the button, > your intelligence will remain unchanged. Only you can use the box and once > used the box will disappear. One more thing, if someone's IQ is reduced > below 0 they will immediately die. Of course anyone with an IQ below > around 40 will need assistance to survive, just as it is now. > > You don't know how the artifact works or where it came from. It could be > magical, divine, demonic or alien, it doesn't really matter. Assume for > the sake of this thought experiment that the box works exactly as > described. What do you do? >
set the dial to ZERO and press , i cannot bring my self to curse the world with a negative adjustment . conversly - i am not prepared to disadvantage my self to improove the lives of those currently below IQ 40
RE: virus: TEOTD #39 : the Artifact
« Reply #3 on: 2005-12-03 15:06:32 »
[Blunderov] Very, very tempting to crank it up and push the button. But once again I decline on the grounds of 'first do no harm'*.
"Would you take a pill that increased your IQ by 10 or 15 points that also had a 10% chance of putting you in a wheel chair?"
Maybe I would, but I'm not too sure; the main thing is that I myself would be doing the deciding. I would be reluctant to make that decision on someone else's behalf.
A fascinating discussion. An excerpt from the link above:
"We know far too little about the human body, particularly the human mind, to go tinkering with it at this stage in the game. First, maybe we should consider cultural and economic adjustments that allow and encourage individuals to actually use, and maybe even maximize, the physical and mental potential that they are born with. Then, sometime in the next few million years, it might be time to start trying to jumpstart our natural abilities. But tinkering with Mother Nature is a matter to be approached with fear and trembling. And you had better know exactly what you are doing before you even start."
Another thing; higher IQ is certainly predictive of increased survivability. But are the effects on the far side of the bell curve as pronounced in terms of usefulness? Will the addition of another 20 points to the score of some here assembled necessarily lead to the GUT? Also, I'm not aware that the Wily Coyotes are, on average, any happier or better adjusted than the rest of us. In short, is there a point of diminishing returns from increased intelligence? Is it nearer than we perhaps realize?
Re:TEOTD #39 : the Artifact
« Reply #4 on: 2005-12-03 17:56:53 »
1 Assumptions:
Note to Assumptions: There are unused assumptions here, as we could step back and infer some of the assumptions from others. In other words, the assumptions are mutually supporting and some could be converted into arguments.
[1.1] Smarter is better [1.2] Species survival is good [1.3] Personal survival is good [1.4] Personal advantage is good, but depends on the above [1.5] Any other species we meet likely got where it is through evolution as we don't know of any other system to achieve development. [1.6] Evolution is not kind. The winner of an evolutionary race is necessarily "nasty". Look in a mirror if you don't accept this. [1.7] This box does not appear to be a terrestial product, i.e. it is likely an otherworldly product. [1.8] Any otherworldly group that meets us on our planet is likely to be much more advanced than us and in consequence, is quite possibly nastier. [1.9] This box is on our planet, thus it is likely that the otherworldly producers of this box are on our planet. [1.10] You don't know how many of these boxes there are. Or in whose hands others of these boxes rest.
2 Analysis:
[2.1] The only way to know if it does what is claimed is to push the button. You can only do this once (i.e. no experiments). [2.2] You do not know anything about the intent of the supplier. That means that you may not have very long before you end up a drooling wreck unable to consider such niceties. [2.3] If the box lied about what it does, then the provider is unethical and whatever the next boot to hit the floor may be worse. [2.4] If the box is telling the truth, then smarter is better. [2.5] From the perspective of the otherworldlies, if we were even slightly dumber we would pose no great threat. [2.6] It is conceivable (though not likely) that if we were somewhat smarter, we might be able to stop relying on evolution and then could cooperate with the otherworldlies. The smarter otherworldlies might have figured this out. [2.7] The fact that you have to choose what to do suggests that the otherworldlies have ethical constraints (there should be no technical reason why they couldn't press the button). [2.8] We can assume that the provider is ethical. [2.9] Any ethical constraint on the part of the supplier is likely to be good for us. [2.10] Any advantage we (species we) can obtain, might help us survive a little longer.
3 Conclusion:
[3.1] Set the dial to plus 100 and press the button. [3.2] The resulting improvement in cognitive ability means that some smart monkeys may survive for longer than we would otherwise do*. [3.3] And hopefully the beneficiaries will be sufficiently grateful not to immolate you immediately.
Hermit
PS A nice puzzle. Thank-you Lucifer.
*Console yourself with the thought that you would still be smarter than most NeoCons and much smarter than the smirking chimp even after they gain 100 points
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
Re: virus: TEOTD #39 : the Artifact
« Reply #5 on: 2005-12-03 21:54:51 »
David Lucifer wrote: > In this thought experiment you discover an ancient artifact. It appears as a small plain box with a dial and a button. The dial can be turned to any number between -100 and +100 inclusive. When you first pick up the box you mysteriously acquire the knowledge of its purpose: When you press the button every live human on Earth will have their IQ adjusted by the amount specified on the dial. Everyone but the person who presses the button, your intelligence will remain unchanged. Only you can use the box and once used the box will disappear. One more thing, if someone's IQ is reduced below 0 they will immediately die. Of course anyone with an IQ below around 40 will need assistance to survive, just as it is now. > > You don't know how the artifact works or where it came from. It could be magical, divine, demonic or alien, it doesn't really matter. Assume for the sake of this thought experiment that the box works exactly as described. What do you do? >
Another hard one. Hmm... let me think what the deal is.
What is IQ really? I'll assume it is better processing capability in diverse kinds of problems. But high IQ is somehow forgiving when it comes to well-weighed goals.
A smart man can easily forego some factors and be a semi-ignoramus because he can afford it, and the impact of this is greater than a dumb man's inability to grasp these same factors. Also remember Shermer's "Why Smart People Believe Weird Things".
In short, it is not completely unheard of for a very smart (high-IQ) man to be a total ass.
However, I do wish to live in interesting times. So, I'd probably set the dial to +20 and push the button. I might have to change friends afterwards, but I am confident I'd find some. I'd still be in the game and I'd watch for the games to start. Because there will be big games, no doubt.
However, I do wish to live in interesting times. So, I'd probably set the dial to +20 and push the button. I might have to change friends afterwards, but I am confident I'd find some. I'd still be in the game and I'd watch for the games to start. Because there will be big games, no doubt.
Re: virus: TEOTD #39 : the Artifact
« Reply #7 on: 2005-12-04 12:58:44 »
I'd probably set it up a few points. 20 might be a little too much, but certainly +5 or so. The collective effects across billions of people would probably be quite profound. I think if I cranked it up 20 points I would have to find new friends and I might be unable to comprehend a lot of the worldwide changes that would follow. I think I could socially handle a 5 point relative shift down while still enjoying and understanding the interesting times that would follow. I couldn't imagine why anybody would want to shift it down. I already think there is too much stupidity in the world, so this would just make me more unhappy. Even being the smartest person on the planet couldn't compensate.
> [Original Message] > From: rhinoceros <rhinoceros@freemail.gr> > To: <virus@lucifer.com> > Date: 12/03/2005 6:54:47 PM > Subject: Re: virus: TEOTD #39 : the Artifact > > > David Lucifer wrote: > > In this thought experiment you discover an ancient artifact. It appears as a small plain box with a dial and a button. The dial can be turned to any number between -100 and +100 inclusive. When you first pick up the box you mysteriously acquire the knowledge of its purpose: When you press the button every live human on Earth will have their IQ adjusted by the amount specified on the dial. Everyone but the person who presses the button, your intelligence will remain unchanged. Only you can use the box and once used the box will disappear. One more thing, if someone's IQ is reduced below 0 they will immediately die. Of course anyone with an IQ below around 40 will need assistance to survive, just as it is now. > > > > You don't know how the artifact works or where it came from. It could be magical, divine, demonic or alien, it doesn't really matter. Assume for the sake of this thought experiment that the box works exactly as described. What do you do? > > > > > Another hard one. Hmm... let me think what the deal is. > > What is IQ really? I'll assume it is better processing capability in > diverse kinds of problems. But high IQ is somehow forgiving when it > comes to well-weighed goals. > > A smart man can easily forego some factors and be a semi-ignoramus > because he can afford it, and the impact of this is greater than a dumb > man's inability to grasp these same factors. Also remember Shermer's > "Why Smart People Believe Weird Things". > > In short, it is not completely unheard of for a very smart (high-IQ) man > to be a total ass. > > > However, I do wish to live in interesting times. So, I'd probably set > the dial to +20 and push the button. I might have to change friends > afterwards, but I am confident I'd find some. I'd still be in the game > and I'd watch for the games to start. Because there will be big games, > no doubt. > > > --- > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 12/02/2005
Re: virus: TEOTD #39 : the Artifact
« Reply #8 on: 2005-12-04 21:01:45 »
i think i would first make some big investment moves based on what would likely flourish and what would likely decline with an increased world IQ...then i would turn it to +100....i wouldnt want to, but as an atheist, i would feel that it is my responsibility to my species...
considering my present IQ, some serious retards would become my equal and thus compatriots. besides, with such a boost how likely would it be that certain technologies would arise lengthening lifespans, increasing intellect and so forth....it would certainly be a life in exciting times!
it must also be considered that at present i could provide good company for someone with a 180 IQ or so...not on par with em' but decent company.
I'd probably set it up a few points. 20 might be a little too much, but certainly +5 or so. The collective effects across billions of people would probably be quite profound. I think if I cranked it up 20 points I would have to find new friends and I might be unable to comprehend a lot of the worldwide changes that would follow. I think I could socially handle a 5 point relative shift down while still enjoying and understanding the interesting times that would follow. I couldn't imagine why anybody would want to shift it down. I already think there is too much stupidity in the world, so this would just make me more unhappy. Even being the smartest person on the planet couldn't compensate.
> [Original Message] > From: rhinoceros <rhinoceros@freemail.gr> > To: <virus@lucifer.com> > Date: 12/03/2005 6:54:47 PM > Subject: Re: virus: TEOTD #39 : the Artifact > > > David Lucifer wrote: > > In this thought experiment you discover an ancient artifact. It appears as a small plain box with a dial and a button. The dial can be turned to any number between -100 and +100 inclusive. When you first pick up the box you mysteriously acquire the knowledge of its purpose: When you press the button every live human on Earth will have their IQ adjusted by the amount specified on the dial. Everyone but the person who presses the button, your intelligence will remain unchanged. Only you can use the box and once used the box will disappear. One more thing, if someone's IQ is reduced below 0 they will immediately die. Of course anyone with an IQ below around 40 will need assistance to survive, just as it is now. > > > > You don't know how the artifact works or where it came from. It could be magical, divine, demonic or alien, it doesn't really matter. Assume for the sake of this thought experiment that the box works exactly as described. What do you do? > > > > > Another hard one. Hmm... let me think what the deal is. > > What is IQ really? I'll assume it is better processing capability in > diverse kinds of problems. But high IQ is somehow forgiving when it > comes to well-weighed goals. > > A smart man can easily forego some factors and be a semi-ignoramus > because he can afford it, and the impact of this is greater than a dumb > man's inability to grasp these same factors. Also remember Shermer's > "Why Smart People Believe Weird Things". > > In short, it is not completely unheard of for a very smart (high-IQ) man > to be a total ass. > > > However, I do wish to live in interesting times. So, I'd probably set > the dial to +20 and push the button. I might have to change friends > afterwards, but I am confident I'd find some. I'd still be in the game > and I'd watch for the games to start. Because there will be big games, > no doubt. > > > --- > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 12/02/2005
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