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Topic: Graves (Read 2848 times) |
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rhinoceros
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My point is ...
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Graves
« on: 2004-05-25 11:40:59 » |
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This story from.... "Al-Associated Press" somehow slipped our attention.
Iraq Desert Bombing Video Shows Carnage Associated Press, May 21, 2004 http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_WEDDING_ATTACK
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Fragments of musical instruments, tufts of women's hair, and a large blood stain are among the scenes in Associated Press Television News film of a destroyed house that survivors say U.S. planes bombed during a wedding party.
It is the first known footage from the site of Wednesday's attack, which killed up to 45 people, mostly women and children from the Bou Fahad tribe in Mogr el-Deeb, a desert village on the Syrian border.
The U.S. military has said the target was a suspected safehouse for foreign fighters from Syria and denied Friday that children were killed in the airstrikes.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt told reporters in Baghdad that U.S. troops who reported back from the operation "told us they did not shoot women and children."
"There were a number of woman, a handful of women, I think the number was four to six, caught up in the engagement. They may have died from some of the fire that came from the aircraft," Kimmitt said.
But an Associated Press reporter in the Ramadi area, at least 275 miles east of Mogr el-Deeb, was able to identify at least 10 of the bodies as those of children.
At the Bou Fahad cemetery outside Ramadi, where the tribe is based, each of the 28 fresh graves contain one to three corpses, mostly of mothers and their young children.
Relatives said they include those of 2-year-old Kholood and 1-year-old Anoud, daughters of Amal Rikad, who was killed; of 2-year-old Raad and 1-year-old Ra'ed — whose headless body was found near his house — sons of Fatima Madhi, who was killed; of Saad, 10, Faisal, 7, Anoud, 6, Fasila, 5, Kholood, 4, and Inad, 3 — children of Mohammed and Morifa Rikad, who were killed.
There also are photo images of dead children, but it was not possible to determine if those victims were already accounted for by relatives.
In Washington, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Richard Myers told Congress that "we feel at this point very confident that this was a legitimate target, probably foreign fighters" who may have ties to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian wanted for allegedly organizing attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq (news - web sites) on behalf of al-Qaida.
<snip>
"What we saw in those APTN videos were substantially inconsistent with the reports we received from the unit that conducted the operation," Kimmitt said. "We're now trying to figure out why there's an inconsistency. <snip>
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040521.wedd0521/BNStory/International/
<snip> The first bomb struck the main tent at about 2:45 a.m., the survivors said. Among those who died was Hussein al-Ali, a prominent wedding singer from Baghdad. The second bomb struck the stone house, killing everyone inside.
Survivors said shells rained down for hours.
Two helicopters landed and about 40 soldiers searched the house where the women had stayed and a second, vacant house. Soon after, the two houses were blown up — although witnesses offered differing accounts of how. Some said the houses were attacked by helicopters. Others said the Americans detonated them with explosives.
Some of the men tried to approach the Americans but were driven back by gunshots, the survivors said. The troops took money and jewellery the dead women had brought for the party, survivors said.
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Mermaid
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Bite me!
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Re:Graves
« Reply #2 on: 2004-05-26 11:25:17 » |
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i dont get it...are you saying 'belmont club'..(seems like a blog) is challenging the way serious journalism(that wire services have to adhere to..including sticking to what we commanly know as FACTS) and that we have to take belmontclub blog seriously?
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Cassidy McGurk
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http://www.isec.info/ get me out of here!
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Re: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #5 on: 2004-05-26 15:01:47 » |
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On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 16:29, Joe Dees wrote: > The Belmont Club proceeds with their analysis using the data from several different press accounts of the selfsame event, chronologically arranged (as to the times at which the news services posted them). Surely the multiply verified facts from several different new services, cross-referenced for correlations, must be better than simply swallowing purported facts from one single source alone, ayy?
depends what the sources are, if they're all Joe "propaganda" Dees approved sources, then they're probably not worth shit.
> > ---- > This message was posted by Joe Dees to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus BBS. > <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=30367> > --- > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> > >
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I must remember to change this sig regularly
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JD
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RE: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #6 on: 2004-05-26 16:43:48 » |
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This is a sour and uncalled for personal attack, Sean. Belmont Club's sources include The Guardian, AP, Reuters, NY Times, BBC News and The Washington Post.
Are you telling us all you assess arguments and information based solely on their provenance?
Joe, bye the way, is simply arguing against the veritable tide of propaganda posted here by opponents of Joe's views. All sides have recently calmed down, but to single him out us both unfair and inaccurate.
Regards
Jonathan
-----Original Message----- From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of Sean Kenny Sent: 26 May 2004 20:02 To: virus@lucifer.com Subject: Re: virus: Re:Graves
On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 16:29, Joe Dees wrote:
[Joe Dees]
The Belmont Club proceeds with their analysis using the data from several different press accounts of the selfsame event, chronologically arranged (as to the times at which the news services posted them). Surely the multiply verified facts from several different new services, cross-referenced for correlations, must be better than simply swallowing purported facts from one single source alone, ayy?
[Sean Kenny]
depends what the sources are, if they're all Joe "propaganda" Dees approved sources, then they're probably not worth shit.
> > ---- > This message was posted by Joe Dees to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus BBS. > <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;thread > id=30367> > --- > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to > <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> > >
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simul
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I am a lama.

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Re: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #7 on: 2004-05-26 17:13:08 » |
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: they're all Joe "propaganda" Dees : approved sources, then they're : probably not worth shit.
That's harsh. He doesn't conciously choose to be a conservative propagandist, he just doesn't know any better. --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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Blunderov
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"We think in generalities, we live in details"
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RE: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #9 on: 2004-05-26 18:22:01 » |
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Joe Dees Sent: 26 May 2004 11:19 PM I'll put the credibility of my many center-mainstream sources up against the credibility of Irvken's few fringe-extreme sources any and every day.
Irvken has proven to be a classic object lesson in the principle that, for brainwashed-by-hatred memebots, every fact that is cognitively dissonant to or incommensurate with their zombic mental lockstep dogma is memetically filtered as 'propaganda' so it can be dismissed or ignored. This is as true of those who are memetically hooked into Bush-hatred as it is of Al Qaedan sympathizers.
---- [Blunderov] Don't you think it interesting that the two examples you selected (from myriad possibilities) happen to coincide, lockstep almost, with the memeplex widely known as 'neo-con'?
Perhaps this memeplex is based on sweet reason, and not brainwashing at all, which is what differentiates it from all other less worthy memeplexes?
Best Regards.
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DrSebby
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...Oh, you smell of lambs!

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RE: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #11 on: 2004-05-26 21:00:44 » |
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....keep in mind Joe, that your center-big-name sources are the very ones likely to be told what and what not to say. the CEO or owner of clearchannel once bought the texas rangers from bush...then bush appoints powell jr. to direct the FCC....legislation follows allowing a virtual monopolization of media outlets....clearchannel now owns 1500 american radio stations and approx. 70% of all music venues. if someone makes them unhappy, how hard would it be to just shut them down? are you really believing that small individuals can fight against such a juggernaut of media control? look at what is happening to howard stern....he's even named several smaller radio personalities that came out against bush, and then 'poof!' theyre either fired, or sent to a very small town office job.
...media IS the ultimate weapon of control...do you REALLY think bush and his good ol' boys wouldnt rush to control it??? with everything theyve done, this wouldnt be anything surprising or difficult. why do you think you NEVER hear about the berg beheading being potentially faked on CNN, or ANY main-stream news source? not a one!!
DrSebby. "Courage...and shuffle the cards".
----Original Message Follows---- From: "Blunderov" <squooker@mweb.co.za> Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com To: <virus@lucifer.com> Subject: RE: virus: Re:Graves Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 00:22:01 +0200
Joe Dees Sent: 26 May 2004 11:19 PM
I'll put the credibility of my many center-mainstream sources up against the credibility of Irvken's few fringe-extreme sources any and every day.
Irvken has proven to be a classic object lesson in the principle that, for brainwashed-by-hatred memebots, every fact that is cognitively dissonant to or incommensurate with their zombic mental lockstep dogma is memetically filtered as 'propaganda' so it can be dismissed or ignored. This is as true of those who are memetically hooked into Bush-hatred as it is of Al Qaedan sympathizers.
---- [Blunderov] Don't you think it interesting that the two examples you selected (from myriad possibilities) happen to coincide, lockstep almost, with the memeplex widely known as 'neo-con'?
Perhaps this memeplex is based on sweet reason, and not brainwashing at all, which is what differentiates it from all other less worthy memeplexes?
Best Regards.
--- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
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"courage and shuffle the cards..."
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DrSebby
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...Oh, you smell of lambs!

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RE: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #13 on: 2004-05-27 02:49:53 » |
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....clearchannel owns them. therefore bush controls them to a certain extent. if it were a free-for-all and they were liberals, they would bring up all the disturbing realities of psycho-bush policies.
btw: did you know that Condaleeza Rice has an oil tanker named after her?
(i bet she'd be a wildcat in bed...i wouldnt say no to her:)
DrSebby. "Courage...and shuffle the cards".
----Original Message Follows---- From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com> Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com To: virus@lucifer.com Subject: virus: Re:Graves Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:33:06 -0600
The bias seems to be in the other direction, Sebby; the Nick Berg beheading story passed pretty quickly (fuck the conspiracy 'faking' take on it; you don't hear about the beheading story much AT ALL!), and the video was never shown on any news channel. The Abu Ghraib story, however, continues to be regularly recycled, with the same pictures presented over and over and over again. Just do a Google search of "nick berg" "iraq" "beheading"and another one of "Abu Ghraib" "prison guard" "torture" (or substitute "abuse") and see how many hits you get for each.
The reporters who present the news to us are, according to the polls, predominantly liberal (and thus anti-Bush and pro-Kerry), and they tend to make such news coverage decisions swayed by conscious or unconscious bias.
---- This message was posted by Joe Dees to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=30367> --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
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"courage and shuffle the cards..."
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Mermaid
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Bite me!
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Re:Graves
« Reply #14 on: 2004-05-27 08:30:44 » |
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as far as i know, only AP(associated press) and Reuters can be considered 'wire services'
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