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Topic: TOTD (Read 811 times) |
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David Lucifer
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Enlighten me.
  
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TOTD
« on: 2004-05-24 13:08:29 » |
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The happiness gained from a false belief is a fool's prize.
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rhinoceros
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My point is ...
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Re:TOTD
« Reply #2 on: 2004-05-25 16:04:50 » |
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[Lucifer]
The happiness gained from a false belief is a fool's prize.
[rhinoceros]
1. What is happiness? I understand happiness as a set of states of the mind (-brain). It may contain pleasure but this is not necessary. I think happiness is being satisfied with your condition by some measures of your own, while you are aware of the possibility of a number of other less desirable conditions (hence "ignorance is bliss" -- when you can not see anything better than your current condition).
2. What is a false belief? To recognize one you have to find that it produces contradictions in the context of a belief system which is both self-consistent and consistent with all facts thrown at it so far. If you take a wider view, you may also include meaningless spurious beliefs which have no direct consequences at all (these may have indirect consequences though).
An interesting question is whether "false belief" as used in the TOTD should include beliefs which cannot be falsified by someone but can be falsified by someone else at another time and place.
What do you think of spurious beliefs which you consciously enforce on yourself so that you get the benefits of happiness in a limited context? Something like a fantasy game.
3. What is a fool's prize? This I don't know. Anyone?
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rhinoceros
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Re:TOTD
« Reply #3 on: 2004-05-29 20:38:27 » |
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New thought of the day on local evation of memetic selection.
If I can talk with resolve while the audience is covering me with tar and feathers, it is impossible my memes to be selected out at that location.
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MoEnzyme
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infidel lab animal
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RE: virus: Re:TOTD
« Reply #4 on: 2004-05-30 16:12:18 » |
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Interesting thought. I would paraphrase it this way. We like to cheer for
the underdog, and if they are at odds, confidence (or the appearance of it)
trumps reason.
Of course through repeated transmissions, the underdog status of the
advocate as well as his/her apparent confidence get separated from the
memes, at which point they become easier to reject. However, at the point
of origin we tend to respond more to the personality than the ideas.
I wouldn't go so far as to say its impossible to reject the memes at their
source . . . If I am effectively designated as one of "them" to the target
audience then my memes will probably hardly register, at which point
tarring and feathering me probably just adds to this social separation from
the audience regardless of my advocacy. For example, if I walked into a
group of Southern Baptists, and I were revealed to be a godless baby-killer
(that's their view of liberal democrats), then it really wouldn't matter
what I had to say or how well I held my ground about some other subject
(like the wrongness of our invasion of Iraq, etc.), I'm still a godless
baby-killer to them.
However, given nothing else, I would say it is difficult enough to reject
the memes of a skilled advocate at the point of origin.
-Jake
> [Original Message]
> From: rhinoceros <rhinoceros@freemail.gr>
> To: <virus@lucifer.com>
> Date: 05/29/2004 5:38:27 PM
> Subject: virus: Re:TOTD
>
>
> New thought of the day on local evation of memetic selection.
>
> If I can talk with resolve while the audience is covering me with tar and
feathers, it is impossible my memes to be selected out at that location.
>
>
> ----
> This message was posted by rhinoceros to the Virus 2004 board on Church
of Virus BBS.
>
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=303
57>
> ---
> To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to
<http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
--- Jake Sapiens
--- every1hz@earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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rhinoceros
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Re: virus: Re:TOTD
« Reply #5 on: 2004-05-30 14:02:29 » |
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[Jake Sapiens] <snip>For example, if I walked into a group of Southern
Baptists, and I were revealed to be a godless baby-killer (that's their
view of liberal democrats), then it really wouldn't matter what I had to
say or how well I held my ground about some other subject (like the
wrongness of our invasion of Iraq, etc.), I'm still a godless
baby-killer to them.
However, given nothing else, I would say it is difficult enough to
reject
the memes of a skilled advocate at the point of origin.
[rhinoceros] What is funny is that if you can keep it up for ever,
oblivious to the tar and feathers, and there is nothing else they can
do, they might come to like it eventually.
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simul
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I am a lama.
 
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Re: virus: Re:TOTD
« Reply #6 on: 2004-05-31 11:56:50 » |
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: transmissions, the underdog
: status of the
: advocate as well as his/her
: apparent confidence get
: separated from the
: memes, at which point they
: become easier to reject.
I agree. This necessitates a two-phase transmission. Not only must the meme be transmitted, but also the recipient must be sufficiently trained to retransmit.
Formal classes can be designed to train virian memetic ability.
Have any of you ever taken an improvisational comedy course? These are excellent for building memetic ability in a group.
I would really like to take one with a dozen other Virians. Perhaps I can arrange something in Vegas?
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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rhinoceros
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Re:TOTD
« Reply #7 on: 2004-06-04 04:56:39 » |
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Yet another thought of the day
No haggling, no whining, work with provisional absolutes, use second-guessing to fast-forward, give freely and take whatever is freely offered.
Does any of this help you win? Well, no. In fact it seems to be evolutionarily unviable most of the time, but *if* it works it is very rewarding and if it doesn't, heck, you didn't expect it to anyway.
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