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   Author  Topic: virus: This is why moderates don't matter  (Read 1221 times)
Jukka E Isosaari
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virus: This is why moderates don't matter
« on: 2003-11-25 23:18:02 »
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simul
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Re: virus: This is why moderates don't matter
« Reply #1 on: 2003-11-25 23:44:50 »
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No, it's because when I went to washington d.c. to discuss approval voting (an initiative critici2d for electing moderates) and secure ballot initiatives, you weren't there.

I prefer to call them "centrists" instead of moderated BTW.  Howard Dean is a centrist- but he's far from "moderate".
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
metahuman
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Re:virus: This is why moderates don't matter
« Reply #2 on: 2003-11-26 06:44:54 »
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Jukka you need to stop reading stupid stuff.

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Listen, here's my idea. After the public Touch-Screen bonfire (we really
need more community minded events, don't you think?), we should march to
our Secretary of State's office and demand the restoration of a
hand-counted paper ballot system.

(abridged)

Hand counted paper ballots /and eternal vigilance/ are the only hope left
for us. The corporate fascists are taking over, and we will never depose
them non-violently as long as they control our elections.
****

Hand-counted paper ballot system? Bad fucking idea. What a retard...
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simul
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Re: virus: This is why moderates don't matter
« Reply #3 on: 2003-11-26 08:33:32 »
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Article on secure, verifiable voting: http://securevote.documentroot.com

If you do a search for secure, verifiable voting, you will find many articles on producing such systems.

The electronic voting systems being produced today by private corporations are far, far worse than hand counted ballots.  I do not think that this is a fault of conspiracy.  I think this is a natural combination of poorly specified requirements and capitalist motivation to do as little work as necessary to satisfy those requirements.

My argument, which I made in front of a panel of experts and which is endorsed by a majority of experts is that any electronic voting system must be open source and use a well-documented and decentralized protocol.

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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
rhinoceros
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Re: virus: This is why moderates don't matter
« Reply #4 on: 2003-11-26 12:31:26 »
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[simul]
If you do a search for secure, verifiable voting, you will find many
articles on producing such systems.

The electronic voting systems being produced today by private
corporations are far, far worse than hand counted ballots.  I do not
think that this is a fault of conspiracy.  I think this is a natural
combination of poorly specified requirements and capitalist motivation
to do as little work as necessary to satisfy those requirements.

My argument, which I made in front of a panel of experts and which is
endorsed by a majority of experts is that any electronic voting system
must be open source and use a well-documented and decentralized
protocol.


[rhinoceros]
Besides those who would try to compromise an e-voting system to their
own benefit, the market also wants to have a say in that. I pointed at a
couple of Salon articles a couple of months ago:

http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=54;action=display;threadid=29365

Another case of electronic vote-tampering?
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/09/29/voting_machine_standards/index_np.html

Voting into the void
New touch-screen voting machines may look spiffy, but some experts say
they can't be trusted.
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/11/05/voting_machines/


<a sample snip from the first one>
From its inception, the working group seems to have been heavily represented with people who, if they were not from the voting industry, were at least very sympathetic to the industry's views. Vincent Lipsio, an engineer from Gainesville, Fla., joined the group because he thought it might be fun to work on voting standards. He remembers attending an early meeting and suggesting to the group that the standard should require software on voting machines to be stored on internal read-only drives, rather than on a write-able media like CDs or memory cards. "Well, I remember this old guy stands up and says things like, 'Son, you've got to trust the voting officials,' and 'It's really not necessary to go to all these lengths to protect the machines.' The tone said that I was naļve -- and almost everyone had that attitude."
<end snip>

« Last Edit: 2003-11-26 13:28:47 by rhinoceros » Report to moderator   Logged
metahuman
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Re:virus: This is why moderates don't matter
« Reply #5 on: 2003-11-26 13:20:58 »
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The solution is not replacement; it is improvement of existing systems. Hand-counted ballot systems are still subject to fraudulent activity and mistakes. They are also quite unsophisticated. Progression is impossible if every step forward means a step backward.
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