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Mermaid
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communication and body language.
« on: 2003-09-17 22:08:30 » |
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after an aborted communication with a virian last night, i was left pondering about body language and speech training.
out there in the big bad world, what tricks do you use to effectively communicate your ideas to others. are we too addicted to online communication now that we have forgotten 'real life' interactions. i'd like to know the specific and conscious kinds of body language some of you may use at work, home or just about any kind of person-to-person interaction. do you raise your voice or lower your voice? do you flail your hands about to make a point? do you make eye contact? do you punctuate sentences with your voice? do you get closer to people when you want them to pay more attention to you? do you believe in 'personal space'? do you crowd someone or corner them when you want to intimidate them? do you show a tinge of anger when you disapprove? do you use different body language when you ask someone for a favour? how do you show that you are not threatening someone etc etc...any thoughts?
paul ekman has a couple of books out on body language, face recognition etc. any other author suggestions?
also...how many here have taken classes for public speaking...been to oratorical competitions or have debated in teams.
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kirksteele
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Re: virus: communication and body language.
« Reply #2 on: 2003-09-17 23:07:13 » |
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yahoo search "Nonverbal Dictionary" It is REALLY kewl!!!!11
kirkafreakingsauras wrecks
NEVER EVER trust some one elses summary
ALWAYS ALWAYS read the data yourself
after an aborted communication with a virian last night, i was left pondering about body language and speech training.
out there in the big bad world, what tricks do you use to effectively communicate your ideas to others. are we too addicted to online communication now that we have forgotten 'real life' interactions. i'd like to know the specific and conscious kinds of body language some of you may use at work, home or just about any kind of person-to-person interaction. do you raise your voice or lower your voice? do you flail your hands about to make a point? do you make eye contact? do you punctuate sentences with your voice? do you get closer to people when you want them to pay more attention to you? do you believe in 'personal space'? do you crowd someone or corner them when you want to intimidate them? do you show a tinge of anger when you disapprove? do you use different body language when you ask someone for a favour? how do you show that you are not threatening someone etc etc...any thoughts?
paul ekman has a couple of books out on body language, face recognition etc. any other author suggestions?
also...how many here have taken classes for public speaking...been to oratorical competitions or have debated in teams.
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Mermaid
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Re:communication and body language.
« Reply #3 on: 2003-09-17 23:41:28 » |
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yo kirky-poo!! how is it hanging?
back in the states?
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Blunderov
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"We think in generalities, we live in details"
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RE: virus: communication and body language.
« Reply #4 on: 2003-09-18 07:54:10 » |
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I remember that FW de Klerk would sometimes give a conspiratorial little
smile at a critical point of his rhetoric. The effect of this was like
'Come on! You and I are a select group of intelligent people who can
grasp this stuff.' It made you feel like a member of the wedding.
Sometimes teachers use this device too.
In fact <blushes> I have sometimes borrowed this technique myself. It's
quite effective.
Best Regards
Blunderov
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On
Behalf
> Of Mermaid
> Sent: 18 September 2003 0409
> To: virus@lucifer.com
> Subject: virus: communication and body language.
>
>
> after an aborted communication with a virian last night, i was left
> pondering about body language and speech training.
>
> out there in the big bad world, what tricks do you use to effectively
> communicate your ideas to others. are we too addicted to online
> communication now that we have forgotten 'real life' interactions. i'd
> like to know the specific and conscious kinds of body language some of
you
> may use at work, home or just about any kind of person-to-person
> interaction. do you raise your voice or lower your voice? do you flail
> your hands about to make a point? do you make eye contact? do you
> punctuate sentences with your voice? do you get closer to people when
you
> want them to pay more attention to you? do you believe in 'personal
> space'? do you crowd someone or corner them when you want to
intimidate
> them? do you show a tinge of anger when you disapprove? do you use
> different body language when you ask someone for a favour? how do you
show
> that you are not threatening someone etc etc...any thoughts?
>
> paul ekman has a couple of books out on body language, face
recognition
> etc. any other author suggestions?
>
> also...how many here have taken classes for public speaking...been to
> oratorical competitions or have debated in teams.
>
> ----
> This message was posted by Mermaid to the Virus 2003 board on Church
of
> Virus BBS.
>
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=54;action=display;threadid
=2
> 9280>
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> To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-
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michelle
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RE: virus: communication and body language.
« Reply #5 on: 2003-09-18 12:08:38 » |
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I am a professional performer, so I have had to really get my body
language on a conscious leash. I did do forensics (stupid name for
dramatic speaking) and plays in high school briefly, and I've always
admired an actor's awareness of both his/her own body language and that
of others. It seems as if the perception and empathy you experience
increases when you are conscious of the complexity of communication.
Serves to remind me that the other monkeys are indeed thinking, even if
it's not obvious by their actions. *snort*
I do not envy anyone the task of learning or re-learning body language
from a text. I think a more visceral way of making it genuine and
unconscious and real is to spend time (a lot) really observing
interactions (say, on a city sidewalk, at the mall, at a park, whatever)
and make up scenarios for them by the body language. For example, when
I was with my ex-wife we used to like to try and find all the other
lesbian couples on the street. (One common indicator is an easy
lockstep. Denotes supreme intimacy and is only usually seen in lifelong
friends, family members and lovers*)
*That's actually my favorite rule of thumb - match your audience. It's
kind of like the principle in lovemaking that if your partner does
something to you, they probably would like it done to them, they
obviously think it feels good.... So if you want the person you're
talking to to lower their voice, for example, lower yours. Lead! They
will follow. Heh heh heh.
-Michelle
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Which is ever greater and more subtle than the world.
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Mermaid
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Re:communication and body language.
« Reply #6 on: 2003-09-18 12:59:59 » |
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kirk steele's search result is: http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/diction1.htm
it is interesting reading. in fact, it was one of my first subjects of discussion in the neighbouring irc room, #sl4.
to blunderov: i too am fascinated by politicians' body language. de gaulle, hitler, david llyod george, churchill, stalin, castro....thatcher...i cant think of any other women...there should be an illustrated book on politicians and body language. great politicians have mastered the art of public speaking as well as nonverbal communication. arrrrggggghhhhh..and then there is dubya. what do you think *he* is communicating to us non verbally?
to michelle: i agree that some subjects are better learned through observation. book knowledge just wont cut it. actors and performance artistes do use a lot of body language. esp for actors...there is no other way to communicate to the audience other than body language..because the audience are the voyeurs and the principal communication is on the stage/screen between the actors. i remember watching this woman, a dance teacher, instructing her students on the different emotions..in nine main categories...love and laughter, digust and wonder...anger and fear....compassion and peacefulness..i forget the last one...it was fascinating because all the above emotions can be communciated through our eyes alone. of course, that is dramatic and things are a tad muted in real life.
and..yes, i like to watch too...
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JD
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RE: virus: Re:communication and body language.
« Reply #7 on: 2003-09-18 13:24:12 » |
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Blunderlov: There was a series on British TV recently called "Leaders". It
explored exactly the topic you are interested in namely the attitudes, body
language and other props of leadership. It was an superb series and I will
try and look it up for you.
You might also want to see this book: "Speak Like Churchill, Stand Like
Lincoln"
[url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761563512/104-0071591-6309575[/url] I
hear it is excellent.
Regards
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Mermaid
Sent: 18 September 2003 18:00
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:communication and body language.
kirk steele's search result is:
http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/diction1.htm
it is interesting reading. in fact, it was one of my first subjects of
discussion in the neighbouring irc room, #sl4.
to blunderov: i too am fascinated by politicians' body language. de gaulle,
hitler, david llyod george, churchill, stalin, castro....thatcher...i cant
think of any other women...there should be an illustrated book on
politicians and body language. great politicians have mastered the art of
public speaking as well as nonverbal communication. arrrrggggghhhhh..and
then there is dubya. what do you think *he* is communicating to us non
verbally?
to michelle: i agree that some subjects are better learned through
observation. book knowledge just wont cut it. actors and performance
artistes do use a lot of body language. esp for actors...there is no other
way to communicate to the audience other than body language..because the
audience are the voyeurs and the principal communication is on the
stage/screen between the actors. i remember watching this woman, a dance
teacher, instructing her students on the different emotions..in nine main
categories...love and laughter, digust and wonder...anger and
fear....compassion and peacefulness..i forget the last one...it was
fascinating because all the above emotions can be communciated through our
eyes alone. of course, that is dramatic and things are a tad muted in real
life.
and..yes, i like to watch too...
----
This message was posted by Mermaid to the Virus 2003 board on Church of
Virus BBS.
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=54;action=display;threadid=292
80>
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Re:communication and body language.
« Reply #8 on: 2003-09-18 15:17:33 » |
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Thank you for this link! It is absolutely riveting. Eg:
<q>
Big Mac
Neuro-notes. While the subtlety of cabernet, truffles, and haute cuisine
is processed by higher brain centers, capable of culinary learning, the
primary tastes of fast food are handled subcortically a. in the
thalamus, and b. in a buried part of the cerebral cortex called the
insula (which is emotionally linked to the amygdala and limbic system).
Like primary colors, the basic bitter, salty, sour, and sweet tastes of
fast-food coffee, fries, pickles, and soda make brash rather than subtle
statements
See also COCA-COLAR.
</q>
Best Regards
Blunderov
> From Mermaid
> Sent: 18 September 2003 1900
> To: virus@lucifer.com
> Subject: virus: Re:communication and body language.
>
>
> kirk steele's search result is:
> http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/diction1.htm
>
> it is interesting reading. in fact, it was one of my first subjects of
> discussion in the neighbouring irc room, #sl4.
>
> to blunderov: i too am fascinated by politicians' body language. de
> gaulle, hitler, david llyod george, churchill, stalin,
> castro....thatcher...i cant think of any other women...there should be
an
> illustrated book on politicians and body language. great politicians
have
> mastered the art of public speaking as well as nonverbal
communication.
> arrrrggggghhhhh..and then there is dubya. what do you think *he* is
> communicating to us non verbally?
>
> to michelle: i agree that some subjects are better learned through
> observation. book knowledge just wont cut it. actors and performance
> artistes do use a lot of body language. esp for actors...there is no
other
> way to communicate to the audience other than body language..because
the
> audience are the voyeurs and the principal communication is on the
> stage/screen between the actors. i remember watching this woman, a
dance
> teacher, instructing her students on the different emotions..in nine
main
> categories...love and laughter, digust and wonder...anger and
> fear....compassion and peacefulness..i forget the last one...it was
> fascinating because all the above emotions can be communciated through
our
> eyes alone. of course, that is dramatic and things are a tad muted in
real
> life.
>
> and..yes, i like to watch too...
>
> ----
> This message was posted by Mermaid to the Virus 2003 board on Church
of
> Virus BBS.
>
<http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=54;action=display;threadid
=2
> 9280>
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kirksteele
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Re: virus: Re:communication and body language.
« Reply #9 on: 2003-09-18 16:12:39 » |
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long and to the left.
yes. Louisana to be sure.
;]
kirkasaurus wrecks
Mermaid <hidden@lucifer.com> wrote:
yo kirky-poo!! how is it hanging?
back in the states?
----
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Re:communication and body language.
« Reply #10 on: 2003-09-18 16:33:27 » |
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Wow! <Blunderov, sweeping his hat from his brow, bows>
Hello redoubtable one! I've Always wanted to go to Louisiana you lucky
fish.
Fond Regards
Blunderov
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf
Of Kirk Steele
Sent: 18 September 2003 2213
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: Re:communication and body language.
long and to the left.
yes. Louisana to be sure.
;]
kirkasaurus wrecks
Mermaid <hidden@lucifer.com> wrote:
yo kirky-poo!! how is it hanging?
back in the states?
----
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Virus BBS.
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Re:communication and body language.
« Reply #11 on: 2003-09-18 18:48:28 » |
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http://members.aol.com/doder1/animal1.htm
<q>
Cats. The first commercial software designed for nonhuman animals may be
a video game called "CyberPounce." In Cyberpounce, virtual flies, fish,
and mice entice the paw-batting instincts of house cats, who "hunt" for
the video images on a screen. "He [CyberPounce creator, Matt Wolf]
learned that cats can recognize activity on a television screen or
computer monitor, but most programming designed for humans doesn't
titillate them. Cats fixate on an object's color and movement patterns
rather than its shape, he said" (Krane2001:A6).
</q>
http://www.cyberpounce.com/
[Blunderov] Wednesday, my very own Panga-ban* likes to pursue the
cursor across the screen when she's bored.
Best Regards
Blunderov
*http://www.obviousalias.com/older/2001_09.php
will make your life a little more surreal
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prometheus
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Where's the fire?
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Re:communication and body language.
« Reply #12 on: 2003-09-18 22:21:09 » |
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Quote from: Mermaid on 2003-09-18 12:59:59
to blunderov: i too am fascinated by politicians' body language. de gaulle, hitler, david llyod george, churchill, stalin, castro....thatcher...i cant think of any other women...there should be an illustrated book on politicians and body language. great politicians have mastered the art of public speaking as well as nonverbal communication. arrrrggggghhhhh..and then there is dubya. what do you think *he* is communicating to us non verbally?
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Interesting topic, Mermaid.
I was struck by the nonverbal message sent by George W's entrance and garb for the speech given on the aircraft carrier. It seemed to set a militaristic tone for the "post war" period.
Prometheus
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Hermit
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Prime example of a practically perfect person
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Re:communication and body language.
« Reply #13 on: 2003-09-19 01:35:29 » |
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In the current era, most senior people in the US (corporate as well as political) have been so drilled by image consultants that their body language is designed to project exactly what they wish. Like this wonderful picture. What message do you think dubya intends to deliver here?
Der neue Fuhrer (Larry Downing/Reuters)
Or does anyone remember the footage caught off air by BBC TV of Dubya clowning around, making faces, and pumping his fist in the air as he shouted 'Feels good!' just before his address to this nation informing us that war would begin in Iraq. Footage shown widely in Europe, but not in tthe US. News anchors that night analyzed how he was so 'somber,' 'serious,' and 'had his game face on.' Source BuzzFlash. Which "body language" should we believe?
I suggest that this means that "body language", if it exists, is largely unuseful - except possibly at a detail level - or when caught unawares. So unless you are interested in how Politicians and others think they should project themselves (according to the ever changing current interpretation of "body-language") don't pay too much attention. Especially given that "body language" is a field which, with a few exceptions well documented on the excellent "non-verbal dictionary" site (KirkSteele, "Re: virus: communication and body language.", Reply #2, 2003-09-17 thank you Kirkasaurus), should be viewed with extreme skepticism. A number of issues on this score are raised in the Skeptical Dictionary article referenced on this site about "No Longer Plausible" but "NevertheLessPopular" NLP.
Hermit
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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DrSebby
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RE: virus: communication and body language.
« Reply #14 on: 2003-09-19 02:18:41 » |
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...what the dickens is an "easy lockstep"? by the way, i'm doing quite well
on my diet/fitness thingie. although my girlfriend seems to be slightly
narcoleptic if not sleepy. perhaps the sedation effects of a happy
relationship have encouraged this development.
DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Michelle Anderson" <michelle@barrymenasherealtors.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: <virus@lucifer.com>
Subject: RE: virus: communication and body language.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:08:38 -0700
I am a professional performer, so I have had to really get my body
language on a conscious leash. I did do forensics (stupid name for
dramatic speaking) and plays in high school briefly, and I've always
admired an actor's awareness of both his/her own body language and that
of others. It seems as if the perception and empathy you experience
increases when you are conscious of the complexity of communication.
Serves to remind me that the other monkeys are indeed thinking, even if
it's not obvious by their actions. *snort*
I do not envy anyone the task of learning or re-learning body language
from a text. I think a more visceral way of making it genuine and
unconscious and real is to spend time (a lot) really observing
interactions (say, on a city sidewalk, at the mall, at a park, whatever)
and make up scenarios for them by the body language. For example, when
I was with my ex-wife we used to like to try and find all the other
lesbian couples on the street. (One common indicator is an easy
lockstep. Denotes supreme intimacy and is only usually seen in lifelong
friends, family members and lovers*)
*That's actually my favorite rule of thumb - match your audience. It's
kind of like the principle in lovemaking that if your partner does
something to you, they probably would like it done to them, they
obviously think it feels good.... So if you want the person you're
talking to to lower their voice, for example, lower yours. Lead! They
will follow. Heh heh heh.
-Michelle
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