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Topic: virus: Reasons to prefer cloning over sexual reproduction (Read 459 times) |
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MoEnzyme
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virus: Reasons to prefer cloning over sexual reproduction
« on: 2003-03-14 12:40:36 » |
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1) A proven set of developmental genes. A very large number of spontaneous
abortions / miscarriages, have a direct cause lying in the faulty genetic
material of the egg/embryo/fetus. Certainly we may expect some technical
difficulties producing a viable egg until the medical community perfects
cloning techniques, but that question comes down more to issues of when
rather than if. The genetic material of a human gets its greatest workout
during prenatal development, so the vast majority of genetic flaws will
manifest during this period, and almost invariably when they do they lead to
the spontaneous termination of the pregnancy. Deciding to clone, means a
decision to go with a proven package. Deciding to reproduce sexually means a
decision to roll the dice. By any reasonable accounting standard, a proven
package should prevail.
2) A medical history. While one might debate how much one's genes may shape
their essence, when it comes to most known medical conditions genes play a
prominent role. Knowing the medical history of the clone's foreparent, can
only enable that individual to take appropriate steps and make better
lifestyle decisions. This represents a gift that no sexual parent can truly
offer their own offspring, at least not to this degree. Far from a genetic
prison, this knowledge will set the free.
3) Memetic exploration. Perhaps the real meaning of cloning will
paradoxically manifest not in the worship of genes, but in the realization of
how freely we can choose a path once we each have complete self-knowledge of
our own genetic packages. At this point we will even begin to exercise
control over our memetic environment as well. Our ability to parse genetic
meanings will make memes appear all the clearer to us then. At this point,
the individual has completely emerged with all the necessary knowledge and
capacity to partake of the transhuman voyage.
-Jake Sapiens
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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michelle
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Re: virus: Reasons to prefer cloning over sexual reproduction
« Reply #1 on: 2003-03-14 16:03:42 » |
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Jake wrote:
> 1) A proven set of developmental genes. ... By any reasonable accounting
standard, a proven
> package should prevail.
This would only really apply if we waited till at least 60 or 70 to clone -
otherwise we run the risk of the same problem that haunts sexual
reproduction, the late-expressing genetic maladaption.
> 2) A medical history.
This is a very good point, especially if the parent waits till late in life,
when lifestyle consequences have fully manifested.
> 3) Memetic exploration. Perhaps the real meaning of cloning will
> paradoxically manifest not in the worship of genes, but in the realization
of
> how freely we can choose a path once we each have complete self-knowledge
of
> our own genetic packages. At this point we will even begin to exercise
> control over our memetic environment as well. Our ability to parse
genetic
> meanings will make memes appear all the clearer to us then. At this
point,
> the individual has completely emerged with all the necessary knowledge and
> capacity to partake of the transhuman voyage.
This seems a little farfetched - one would have to educate the clone in a
much more rigorous manner than children are currently educated. Maybe kind
of like some eastern cultures value education, cramming it in as fast and as
fully as it will go. It seems far more likely that there will have to be at
least 3 or 4 successive generations of clones in society before we start to
notice the metaphors. Or before the clones themselves start caring - they
will be normal people, after all, with the same rebellious nature and
issue-laden struggling life that we all deal with... deep contemplation
about the nature of their place in society and what they mean to science
will probably not be a priority, especially because it might be expected and
pushed on them! I see them breaking the chains and riding off into the
sunset, defiantly refusing to read books or behave, easy riders one and all!
Great topic, Jake!
Michelle
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MoEnzyme
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Re: virus: Reasons to prefer cloning over sexual reproduction
« Reply #2 on: 2003-03-17 02:45:08 » |
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In a message dated 3/14/2003 3:13:07 PM Central Standard Time,
michelle@barrymenasherealtors.com writes:
Jake wrote:
> 1) A proven set of developmental genes. ... By any reasonable accounting
standard, a proven
> package should prevail.
[michelle]This would only really apply if we waited till at least 60 or 70 to
clone -
otherwise we run the risk of the same problem that haunts sexual
reproduction, the late-expressing genetic maladaption.
[Jake2] a lot of those kinds of problems can be caught by my 2) below. The
medical history of the clone parent continues on even after the clone child
is born.
> 2) A medical history.
[michelle]This is a very good point, especially if the parent waits till late
in life,
when lifestyle consequences have fully manifested.
> 3) Memetic exploration. Perhaps the real meaning of cloning will
> paradoxically manifest not in the worship of genes, but in the realization
of
> how freely we can choose a path once we each have complete self-knowledge
of
> our own genetic packages. At this point we will even begin to exercise
> control over our memetic environment as well. Our ability to parse
genetic
> meanings will make memes appear all the clearer to us then. At this
point,
> the individual has completely emerged with all the necessary knowledge and
> capacity to partake of the transhuman voyage.
[michelle] This seems a little farfetched
[Jake2] I prefer the word "visionary myself"
http://virus.lucifer.com/virtues.html
[michelle] - one would have to educate the clone in a
much more rigorous manner than children are currently educated. Maybe kind
of like some eastern cultures value education, cramming it in as fast and as
fully as it will go. It seems far more likely that there will have to be at
least 3 or 4 successive generations of clones in society before we start to
notice the metaphors. Or before the clones themselves start caring - they
will be normal people, after all, with the same rebellious nature and
issue-laden struggling life that we all deal with... deep contemplation
about the nature of their place in society and what they mean to science
will probably not be a priority, especially because it might be expected and
pushed on them! I see them breaking the chains and riding off into the
sunset, defiantly refusing to read books or behave, easy riders one and all!
[Jake] Perhaps a few at first. But once a few get their bearings it won't
take long for the others to find useful examples within the template of
another clone's experience. Also to some extent, one might try a different
parenting setup, whereby parental authority is vested in some person(s) not
the clone parent. This would perhaps work best and recognize the different
nature of the clone parent/child relationship from the "traditional"
biological parent/child relationship. The clone parent would play the
supportive role of a "responsible adult" in the child's life (much like a
teacher or some other important non-parent), but would not hold ultimate
responsibility for life choices for the clone child.
[michelle]
Great topic, Jake!
Michelle
[Jake] Thanks,
Love,
-Jake
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I will fight your gods for food,
Mo Enzyme
(consolidation of handles: Jake Sapiens; memelab; logicnazi; Loki; Every1Hz; and Shadow)
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Hermit
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Re:virus: Reasons to prefer cloning over sexual reproduction
« Reply #3 on: 2003-03-17 14:06:22 » |
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I'd add another triplet of advantages: the ability to manipulate the DNA of the clone to be, knowing how it has been expressed in the parent, with the aim of improving the abilities and survivability of the clone to be. The fact that the above "change mechanism", being easily shown to be faster and superior to (random) evolution, will allow us to stop relying on direct competition to effect allelle changes - which will have huge implications for our future development and ability to coexist with other potentially superior organisms (whether synthetic or natural (but potentially not Earth based)). Finally, the ability to effect rapid change in ourselves will grant us a far greater adaptive capability - an ability which could well result in our ability to survive "epoch terminating catastrophic events". This last will remain important for so long as we remain anchored to the Earth and hoping for a long term future for ourselves and our successors (whether genetic or memetic).
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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