Why the Arab world hates America By Dennis Prager Why is America hated in the Arab world? According to leftists and to Arab and Islamic spokesmen, the reasons are: American support for non-democratic regimes in the Arab world “ such as in Egypt and Saudi Arabia “ and because America supports Israel. Before positing what I believe to be the reasons, let's answer these two arguments. The argument that America is hated by Arabs because it supports non-democratic regimes in the Arab world would be regarded as hilarious were it not believed by so many gullible people in the West. The argument presupposes that what the Arabs (and Muslims elsewhere) who hate America want are open and free societies. But there is not a shred of evidence to support this. Is there any movement for pluralism, openness and democracy among those who hate America? Of course not. The Arab governments most opposed to America and which America therefore least influences “ Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Libya “ have less freedom than the corrupt Arab regimes that America does support. As corrupt and repressive as the Egyptian government is, Egypt is free compared to the aforementioned countries. And if the United States ceased to pour billions of dollars a year into Egypt and the Mubarak dictatorship then fell, what would supplant it? Democracy? Openness? Pluralism? Freedom of speech? We all know the answer. In every Arab country, a corrupt regime supported by America would be supplanted by a Taliban-type Islamic/fascist regime. So let's call this argument what it is “ a lie. Overwhelmingly, the Arabs who hate us don't want a free and open society; they want an Islamic totalitarian one. American influence in the Arab world prevents our haters there from imposing their vicious expression of Islam, not from establishing Jeffersonian democracy. As for the second argument, yes, our support for Israel's security further inflames the hatred of those Arabs (and Muslims elsewhere) who hate us. But why do they hate Israel? Why are they so obsessed with a tiny state in a part of the Arab and Islamic world that they utterly ignored until Jews made a civilization there? Because America's and Israel's haters are ethnic and religious haters on a magnitude not seen since the Nazis. They loathe everything Israel (and its American supporter) represents “ freedom, democracy, openness, individual autonomy, freedom of religion, pluralism, women's equality and sexual freedom. They want Israel dead. Gone. Exterminated. They say so publicly, and they say so in polls. Yet, the educated fools and the Israel- and America-haters of the West ignore all this and blame Israel for trying to exist and America for enabling it to do so. If America abandoned Israel, our Arab and Muslim haters would rejoice, but they would surely not stop hating us. Not one of them. They would only conclude that their terror worked, and that America will give in when the threats are great enough. One proof? Most Muslims living in Europe, which has abandoned Israel, continue to loathe Europe. Europe's abandonment of Israel has only convinced them “ for good reason “ that Europe has lost its moral fiber and is ripe for an Islamic takeover. Arab and other Muslims who hate America do so: * Because America alone (and the little America in the Middle East, Israel) prevents the expansion of Islamic rule. * Because expansionist totalitarian movements, whether Soviet communism or radical Islam, always hate free societies, and America is the strongest free society. * Because America is not only strong, it is religious (as opposed to Europe, which is weak and irreligious). * Because America is not only Christian “ it is Judeo- Christian, the two religions the Islamists need to overcome to expand globally. The greatest problem confronting America is not that people who loathe freedom loathe us. Indeed, it is to America's enduring credit that it is hated by Islamists. Our great problem is that so many in our country do not understand that those who loathe liberty loathe America. For this reason, the battle for America's future is at home more than it is in Iraq or Afghanistan or in al- Qaida's caves. We talk a great deal about winning Arabs' and Muslims' minds and hearts. Yet, we have yet to win all Americans' minds and hearts. For confirmation, just visit your local university. --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
I'm an Israeli living in Europe. I'm all for the continued existence of my country - but you have to understand that the way Israel treats the Palestinians is hardly better than the way Arabs treat Israel. The Palestinians have as much right as the Israelis to the land, the way I see it. But now, they're forced to live in a cross between slums and concentration camps. Is it any wonder Arabs hate Israel? Also, you say most Muslims living in Europe loath Europe. Well, I live there, and none of the Muslims I talked to gave me that impression. Far from it. They were well integrated in European society, and just as opposed to religious violence as you and I. What I'm saying is, you're speaking of the world in terms of black and white - America and Israel represent democracy, freedom, yadda yadda yadda. And all Muslims want to take over the world. Wrong. Everything here is shades of gray. And even if it has a great moral advantage on the Islamic world, the West isn't a figure of innocence here.
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> > I'm an Israeli living in Europe. I'm all for the continued existence > of my country - but you have to understand that the way Israel treats > the Palestinians ishardly better than the way Arabs treat Israel. The > Palestinians have as much right as the Israelis to the land, the way I > see it. But now, they're forced to live in a cross between slums and > concentration camps. Is it any wonder Arabs hate Israel? Also, you say > most Muslims living in Europe loath Europe. Well, I live there, and > none of the Muslims I talked to gave me that impression. Far from it. > They were well integrated in European society, and just as opposed to > religious violence as you and I. What I'm saying is, you're speaking > of the world in terms of black and white - America and Israel > represent democracy, freedom, yadda yadda yadda. And all Muslims want > to take over the world. Wrong. Everything here is shades of gray. And > even if it has a great moral advantage on the Islamic world, the West > isn't a figure of innocence here. > Well, welcome to the US should you decide to emigrate here. Considering all the antisemitic attacks happening in France (and in Europe generally) lately, I'm quite sure you would be much safer over here. > > Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! > Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail
joedees@bellsouth.net wrote: > > I'm an Israeli living in Europe. I'm all for the continued existence > of my country - but you have to understand that the way Israel treats > the Palestinians ishardly better than the way Arabs treat Israel. The > Palestinians have as much right as the Israelis to the land, the way I > see it. But now, they're forced to live in a cross between slums and > concentration camps. Is it any wonder Arabs hate Israel? Also, you say > most Muslims living in Europe loath Europe. Well, I live there, and > none of the Muslims I talked to gave me that impression. Far from it. > They were well integrated in European society, and just as opposed to > religious violence as you and I. What I'm saying is, you're speaking > of the world in terms of black and white - America and Israel > represent democracy, freedom, yadda yadda yadda. And all Muslims want > to take over the world. Wrong. Everything here is shades of gray. And > even if it has a great moral advantage on the Islamic world, the West > isn't a figure of innocence here. > Well, welcome to the US should you decide to emigrate here. Considering all the antisemitic attacks happening in France (and in Europe generally) lately, I'm quite sure you would be much safer over here. >
I've been living in France since I was six and there hasn't been a single time where I was the victim of antisemitism. Nor have my parents or my sister. I think the antesimitism here is about as marginal as in the US. True, a high percentage of votes went to the far-Right (partly because there were so many abstentions). But those were mostly people who wanted to protest against are two main parties. As a matter of fact, there were many people who voted for the far-Right who are not exactly what you'd imagine: I remember that guy who was married to an Algerian but voted for them, and many Arabs/Jews who cheered for them because they figured they would 'take care of the other side'. Go figure.
--------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail
> > > joedees@bellsouth.net wrote: > > > > I'm an Israeli living in Europe. I'm all for the continued > existence > of my country - but you have to understand that the > way Israel treats > the Palestinians ishardly better than the way > Arabs treat Israel. The > Palestinians have as much right as the > Israelis to the land, the way I > see it. But now, they're forced > to live in a cross between slums and > concentration camps. Is it > any wonder Arabs hate Israel? Also, you say > most Muslims living > in Europe loath Europe. Well, I live there, and > none of the > Muslims I talked to gave me that impression. Far from it. > They > were well integrated in European society, and just as opposed to > > religious violence as you and I. What I'm saying is, you're > speaking > of the world in terms of black and white - America and > Israel > represent democracy, freedom, yadda yadda yadda. And all > Muslims want > to take over the world. Wrong. Everything here ! is > shades of gray. And > even if it has a great moral advantage on > the Islamic world, the West > isn't a figure of innocence here. > > Well, welcome to the US should you decide to emigrate here. > Considering all the antisemitic attacks happening in France (and > in Europe generally) lately, I'm quite sure you would be much > safer over here. > I've been living in France since I was six and > there hasn't been a single time where I was the victim of > antisemitism. Nor have my parents or my sister. I think the > antesimitism here is about as marginal as in the US. True, a high > percentage of votes went to the far-Right (partly because there > were so many abstentions). But those were mostly people who wanted > to protest against are two main parties. As a matter of fact, > there were many people who voted for the far-Right who are not > exactly what you'd imagine: I remember that guy who was married to > an Algerian but voted for them, and many Arabs/Jews who cheered > for them because they figured they would 'take care of the other > side'. Go figure. > Isn't there at least a solid minority, if not a majority, of Muslims that are agitating for special religious dispensations to violate some human rights (especially concerning women and freedom of critical speech) where they claim that granting them would conflict with their religious exigencies or defame their faith, and is there not a smaller but still significant minority that looks forward to one day subsuming Europe under shar'ia law and relegating nonMuslims to dhimmitude there? These would, of course, be the violent fundamentalist ones. > > Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! > Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail
Re:virus: Why the Arab world hates America
« Reply #5 on: 2003-01-14 17:40:24 »
[Sun Tzu] I'm an Israeli living in Europe. I'm all for the continued existence of my country - but you have to understand that the way Israel treats the Palestinians ishardly better than the way Arabs treat Israel. The Palestinians have as much right as the Israelis to the land, the way I see it. But now, they're forced to live in a cross between slums and concentration camps. Is it any wonder Arabs hate Israel? Also, you say most Muslims living in Europe loath Europe. Well, I live there, and none of the Muslims I talked to gave me that impression. Far from it. They were well integrated in European society, and just as opposed to religious violence as you and I. What I'm saying is, you're speaking of the world in terms of black and white - America and Israel represent democracy, freedom, yadda yadda yadda. And all Muslims want to take over the world. Wrong. Everything here is shades of gray. And even if it has a great moral advantage on the Islamic world, the West isn't a figure of innocence here.
[Joe Dees] Well, welcome to the US should you decide to emigrate here. Considering all the antisemitic attacks happening in France (and in Europe generally) lately, I'm quite sure you would be much safer over here.
[Casey] Anti-semitic attacks? Heh.
Sun Tzu, if you want to remain safe, then don't come to the US. We have our fair share of anti-semites in this country.
Joe, the attacks you describe occur just as frequently in the US as they do in Europe. I'd harken to say that Europe is more than likely to be more inclusive than the US is at this point in time.
If you care for me to scrounge up the statistics I'd be more than happy to provide you with information (from VERY reliable sources) regarding anti-semitic activity, here and abroad.
In the meanwhile, I think you should probably re-read what Sun had to say. Not once did he mention anti-semitic attacks. Nor, did he speak of "all the antisemitic attacks in France (and in Europe generally)" as you proclaim.
Perhaps, you should research this topic before making such a statement. But, as I said before, I'd be more than willing to provide you with all the available statistics that are available.
Life is not black and white. There are varying shades of gray that encompass this situation.
To be quite honest, I can't wait for the Palestinians to have a "legitimate" government. Not one dictated to them by the US, or any other nation, for that matter.
Until the Palestinians can decide for themselves (without US or anyone elses influence) whom they want as their leaders, then you and I should remain on the sidelines to see how it develops.
Sun Tzu brings up some interesting points; all from an Israeli's perspective.
While it states that anti-semitic acts have decreased in the US (from 1,606 in 2000 to 1,432 in 2001) you will notice that it still hovers over the 1000 threshold mark. In fact, your home state, Florida, had 115 attacks last year alone (up from 81 the previous year). That number is the highest of all of the southern US.
Additionally, I read an article on the Anti-Defamation League's website which stated that anti-semitism is on the rise in the US. 17% of all US citizens hold some hardcore anti-semitic beliefs. This report may be accessed here: http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4109_12.asp
Paradoxically, contrary to what one of your oft-quoted authors (Daniel Pipes) has to say, US college professors and students are not virulently anti-semetic as he would like all of us to think. In fact, they make up a total of 3% of those who harbor anti-semitic beliefs. Again, all this is according to the ADL's website.
Oh, and since we're talking about Daniel Pipes here is an interview he conducted with The Harvard Salient entitled, " Harvard’s Un-American Activities". For those of you not in the know, The Harvard Salient is a reactionary (in the political spectrum-sense) publication on the Harvard University campus:
It would best serve everyone on this list to know that Mr. Pipes, who also heads http://www.campuswatch.org/, feels that Harvard University promotes bias regarding Judaism via it's Middle Eastern Studies program. And to that, I say puh-leaze! Before Mr. Pipes goes off on another tirade it might best suit him if he were to acknowledge the ADL's own statistics. Thank you very much.
> > [Sun Tzu] > I'm an Israeli living in Europe. I'm all for the continued existence > of my country - but you have to understand that the way Israel treats > the Palestinians ishardly better than the way Arabs treat Israel. The > Palestinians have as much right as the Israelis to the land, the way I > see it. But now, they're forced to live in a cross between slums and > concentration camps. Is it any wonder Arabs hate Israel? Also, you say > most Muslims living in Europe loath Europe. Well, I live there, and > none of the Muslims I talked to gave me that impression. Far from it. > They were well integrated in European society, and just as opposed to > religious violence as you and I. What I'm saying is, you're speaking > of the world in terms of black and white - America and Israel > represent democracy, freedom, yadda yadda yadda. And all Muslims want > to take over the world. Wrong. Everything here is shades of gray. And > even if it has a great moral advantage on the Islamic world, the West > isn't a figure of in! nocence here. > > [Joe Dees] > Well, welcome to the US should you decide to emigrate here. > Considering all the antisemitic attacks happening in France (and in > Europe generally) lately, I'm quite sure you would be much safer over > here. > > [Casey] > Anti-semitic attacks? Heh. > > Sun Tzu, if you want to remain safe, then don't come to the US. We > have our fair share of anti-semites in this country. > > Joe, the attacks you describe occur just as frequently in the US as > they do in Europe. I'd harken to say that Europe is more than likely > to be more inclusive than the US is at this point in time. > > If you care for me to scrounge up the statistics I'd be more than > happy to provide you with information (from VERY reliable sources) > regarding anti-semitic activity, here and abroad. > > In the meanwhile, I think you should probably re-read what Sun had to > say. Not once did he mention anti-semitic attacks. Nor, did he > speak of "all the antisemitic attacks in France (and in Europe > generally)" as you proclaim. > > Perhaps, you should research this topic before making such a > statement. But, as I said before, I'd be more than willing to > provide you with all the available statistics that are available. > > Life is not black and white. There are varying shades of gray that > encompass this situation. > > To be quite honest, I can't wait for the Palestinians to have a > "legitimate" government. Not one dictated to them by the US, or any > other nation, for that matter. > > Until the Palestinians can decide for themselves (without US or anyone > elses influence) whom they want as their leaders, then you and I > should remain on the sidelines to see how it develops. > > Sun Tzu brings up some interesting points; all from an Israeli's > perspective. > > FYI-I've included a few URLs to get you started... > http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4057_12.asp > > While it states that anti-semitic acts have decreased in the US (from > 1,606 in 2000 to 1,432 in 2001) you will notice that it still hovers > over the 1000 threshold mark. In fact, your home state, Florida, had > 115 attacks last year alone (up from 81 the previous year). That > number is the highest of all of the southern US. > > Additionally, I read an article on the Anti-Defamation League's > website which stated that anti-semitism is on the rise in the US. > 17% of all US citizens hold some hardcore anti-semitic beliefs. This > report may be accessed here: > http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4109_12.asp > > > Paradoxically, contrary to what one of your oft-quoted authors (Daniel > Pipes) has to say, US college professors and students are not > virulently anti-semetic as he would like all of us to think. In fact, > they make up a total of 3% of those who harbor anti-semitic beliefs. > Again, all this is according to the ADL's website. > > Oh, and since we're talking about Daniel Pipes here is an interview he > conducted with The Harvard Salient entitled, " Harvard’s Un-American > Activities". For those of you not in the know, The Harvard Salient is > a reactionary (in the political spectrum-sense) publication on the > Harvard University campus: > > http://hcs.harvard.edu/~salient/issues/10042002/10042002_cover_story_l > evine.html > > It would best serve everyone on this list to know that Mr. Pipes, who > also heads http://www.campuswatch.org/, feels that Harvard University > promotes bias regarding Judaism via it's Middle Eastern Studies > program. And to that, I say puh-leaze! Before Mr. Pipes goes off > on another tirade it might best suit him if he were to acknowledge the > ADL's own statistics. Thank you very much. > Check out: http://www.lchr.org/media/2002_alerts/0827.htm http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4185_13.asp http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0617/antisemitism/stor y.html http://wordofmessiah.org/europe_antisemitism.htm http://www.eurozine.com/article/2002-09-25-baier-en.html http://aufbauonline.com/2002/issue8/pages8/1.html
Re:virus: Why the Arab world hates America
« Reply #7 on: 2003-01-15 12:41:30 »
It seems to me that both Joe and Casey are correct in some points, and incorrect on others.
There are no numbers for Europe as a whole in any of the links. There were several smaller sets of data though, and it looks to me like anti-semitism is indeed more of a problem in Europe and getting worse. But if you assume that the EU and US have roughly equal populations, and while the US does not in any way regulate things of religious interest to Jews, Europe seems to have no problem making life difficult for them at a legislative level - outlawing kosher food production does seem like a rather obvious attack. As for violence, France for instance went through 400 cases in a single month. When you compare the population of France and the US and keep in mind the quantity that 400 a month over a year could generate, there can be no doubt that the problem is several times worse in France alone compared to the US. Even at half that rate, say 200, there are 2400 a year.
Yet our new friend, Sun Tzu insists that this has not been a problem for him, and we have no reason to doubt him. I guess, as he lives in France, the question would be "How well". Sun Tzu, are you in an upper class neighborhood, lower class? Where are you in the social structure? I don't know if can be said in Europe, but I am willing to bet that the more affluent you are, and the more affluent the area you live in is, the less likely you are to be openly anti-semetic and prone to violence.
To be true to Casey though, one does have to admit that the problem is getting worse in the US as well. My problem is that I have a hard time taking a 1500 crimes over a year in a population of 300+ million very seriously. Anti-semitism in the US is far behind other issues of import. I am much more concerned with the racism that my Mexican / American employees have to deal with every day than the puny liklihood that I may come across anti-jewish sentiment. That literally thousands trek across the AZ desert to find work every year, and that hundreds die painful deaths in the desert either from exposure, or violence seems lost on people worried about getting picked on cause of their religion.
Last time I looked, there were 128 deaths in desert an hour south of me from illegal aliens trying to cross the border. Where is the outrage here? I doubt most of you even know or care that whole families end up dead in the desert cause the governement refuses to install anything more than an oft broker barbed wire fence. I guarantee you that a single incident in NY of a Jewish guy getting beaten by some red neck would get for more press than all the deaths over all the years that happen a short distance from my home?
I wonder why? Actually I don't wonder, I know why, but to say so would be anti-semetic.
Isn't there at least a solid minority, if not a majority, of Muslims that are agitating for special religious dispensations to violate some human rights (especially concerning women and freedom of critical speech) where they claim that granting them would conflict with their religious exigencies or defame their faith, and is there not a smaller but still significant minority that looks forward to one day subsuming Europe under shar'ia law and relegating nonMuslims to dhimmitude there? These would, of course, be the violent fundamentalist ones. > That doesn't seem to correspond to any of the muslims/arabs I've met. Back in high scholl, I had several arabic female classmates who dressed in a 'normal', Europeean way. I've also met atheist arabs, moderate muslims, or whatever. But I don't recall seeing anybody who was in favor of the Sharia - which, as you know, is pretty barbaric in certain aspects. And I don't think any of the people I met would support something like this. And none of them were put off by my Israeli citizienship.
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Yet our new friend, Sun Tzu insists that this has not been a problem for him, and we have no reason to doubt him. I guess, as he lives in France, the question would be "How well". Sun Tzu, are you in an upper class neighborhood, lower class? Where are you in the social structure? I don't know if can be said in Europe, but I am willing to bet that the more affluent you are, and the more affluent the area you live in is, the less likely you are to be openly anti-semetic and prone to violence.
To be perfectly honest, it's true that I don't live in a very problematic place. My home is in the Alps - but I still have to spend much time in the city (Grenoble to be specific).
Now, I did have to face a lot of teasing at school - but never for racial reasons. As a matter of fact, I think many of the teasers didn't know I wasn't French - it certainly doesn't show. And when people actually notice my accent, they usually ask if I'm from Blegium or England. The reason I was often teased was that I was an easy target: an outsider, an 'intellectual', a geek, the guy who would spend recess walking in circles or reading. You get the picture. But nobody ever attacked me on racial grounds.
Maybe it would have been different if I lived in a poor parisian neighborhood. And maybe the fact that I went to an international (that is, bilingual) high school had some effect. But fact is, I've never seen anybody behave in a racist way during all my stay here.
Interesting fact: See, my father works here as a researcher (recently got promoted to research director.). One odd thing I noticed is that there are at least as many immigrants as Frenchmen doing research in his lab: Two of his best friends are Arabics, more than one colleague is Russian, the boss is greek, the student who just got her doctorate is Vietnamese, and so on.
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Re: virus: Why the Arab world hates America
« Reply #10 on: 2003-01-15 19:46:30 »
...Ouri, are you algerian then?
DrSebby. "Courage...and shuffle the cards".
----Original Message Follows---- From: Ouri M <ouri_maler@yahoo.fr> Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com To: virus@lucifer.com Subject: Re: virus: Why the Arab world hates America Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:44:02 +0100 (CET)
joedees@bellsouth.net wrote: > > I'm an Israeli living in Europe. I'm all for the continued existence > of my country - but you have to understand that the way Israel treats > the Palestinians ishardly better than the way Arabs treat Israel. The > Palestinians have as much right as the Israelis to the land, the way I > see it. But now, they're forced to live in a cross between slums and > concentration camps. Is it any wonder Arabs hate Israel? Also, you say > most Muslims living in Europe loath Europe. Well, I live there, and > none of the Muslims I talked to gave me that impression. Far from it. > They were well integrated in European society, and just as opposed to > religious violence as you and I. What I'm saying is, you're speaking > of the world in terms of black and white - America and Israel > represent democracy, freedom, yadda yadda yadda. And all Muslims want > to take over the world. Wrong. Everything here is shades of gray. And > even if it has a great moral advantage on the Islamic world, the West > isn't a figure of innocence here. > Well, welcome to the US should you decide to emigrate here. Considering all the antisemitic attacks happening in France (and in Europe generally) lately, I'm quite sure you would be much safer over here. >
I've been living in France since I was six and there hasn't been a single time where I was the victim of antisemitism. Nor have my parents or my sister. I think the antesimitism here is about as marginal as in the US. True, a high percentage of votes went to the far-Right (partly because there were so many abstentions). But those were mostly people who wanted to protest against are two main parties. As a matter of fact, there were many people who voted for the far-Right who are not exactly what you'd imagine: I remember that guy who was married to an Algerian but voted for them, and many Arabs/Jews who cheered for them because they figured they would 'take care of the other side'. Go figure.
--------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail
Just when I thought I was out-they pull me back in
Re: virus: Why the Arab world hates America
« Reply #11 on: 2003-01-15 21:47:18 »
Doc,
Please post more.
I'm so bored...........
WW
Dr Sebby wrote:
> ...Ouri, are you algerian then? > > DrSebby. > "Courage...and shuffle the cards". > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Ouri M <ouri_maler@yahoo.fr> > Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com > To: virus@lucifer.com > Subject: Re: virus: Why the Arab world hates America > Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:44:02 +0100 (CET) > > joedees@bellsouth.net wrote: > > > > I'm an Israeli living in Europe. I'm all for the continued existence > > of my country - but you have to understand that the way Israel treats > > the Palestinians ishardly better than the way Arabs treat Israel. The > > Palestinians have as much right as the Israelis to the land, the way I > > see it. But now, they're forced to live in a cross between slums and > > concentration camps. Is it any wonder Arabs hate Israel? Also, you say > > most Muslims living in Europe loath Europe. Well, I live there, and > > none of the Muslims I talked to gave me that impression. Far from it. > > They were well integrated in European society, and just as opposed to > > religious violence as you and I. What I'm saying is, you're speaking > > of the world in terms of black and white - America and Israel > > represent democracy, freedom, yadda yadda yadda. And all Muslims want > > to take over the world. Wrong. Everything here is shades of gray. And > > even if it has a great moral advantage on the Islamic world, the West > > isn't a figure of innocence here. > > > Well, welcome to the US should you decide to emigrate here. > Considering all the antisemitic attacks happening in France (and in > Europe generally) lately, I'm quite sure you would be much safer over > here. > > > > I've been living in France since I was six and there hasn't been a single > time where I was the victim of antisemitism. Nor have my parents or my > sister. I think the antesimitism here is about as marginal as in the US. > True, a high percentage of votes went to the far-Right (partly because there > were so many abstentions). But those were mostly people who wanted to > protest against are two main parties. As a matter of fact, there were many > people who voted for the far-Right who are not exactly what you'd imagine: I > remember that guy who was married to an Algerian but voted for them, and > many Arabs/Jews who cheered for them because they figured they would 'take > care of the other side'. Go figure. > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! > Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > --- > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
--
Walter Watts Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.
"No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!"
I thought It was clear from my post that I'm an Israeli (and not an Arab Israeli, either. My grandparents were Jews who lived in Poland and Ukrania prior to World War II). Dr Sebby <drsebby@hotmail.com> wrote:...Ouri, are you algerian then?
DrSebby. "Courage...and shuffle the cards".
----Original Message Follows---- From: Ouri M Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com To: virus@lucifer.com Subject: Re: virus: Why the Arab world hates America Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:44:02 +0100 (CET)
joedees@bellsouth.net wrote: > > I'm an Israeli living in Europe. I'm all for the continued existence > of my country - but you have to understand that the way Israel treats > the Palestinians ishardly better than the way Arabs treat Israel. The > Palestinians have as much right as the Israelis to the land, the way I > see it. But now, they're forced to live in a cross between slums and > concentration camps. Is it any wonder Arabs hate Israel? Also, you say > most Muslims living in Europe loath Europe. Well, I live there, and > none of the Muslims I talked to gave me that impression. Far from it. > They were well integrated in European society, and just as opposed to > religious violence as you and I. What I'm saying is, you're speaking > of the world in terms of black and white - America and Israel > represent democracy, freedom, yadda yadda yadda. And all Muslims want > to take over the world. Wrong. Everything here is shades of gray. And > even if it has a great moral advantage on the Islamic world, the West > isn't a figure of innocence here. > Well, welcome to the US should you decide to emigrate here. Considering all the antisemitic attacks happening in France (and in Europe generally) lately, I'm quite sure you would be much safer over here. >
I've been living in France since I was six and there hasn't been a single time where I was the victim of antisemitism. Nor have my parents or my sister. I think the antesimitism here is about as marginal as in the US. True, a high percentage of votes went to the far-Right (partly because there were so many abstentions). But those were mostly people who wanted to protest against are two main parties. As a matter of fact, there were many people who voted for the far-Right who are not exactly what you'd imagine: I remember that guy who was married to an Algerian but voted for them, and many Arabs/Jews who cheered for them because they figured they would 'take care of the other side'. Go figure.
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