False Memory Syndrome Foundation
Compilation: Corydon Hammond
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F M S  F O U N D A T I O N  N E W S L E T T E R
Vol 2 No. 9, October 1, 1993
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______________________________SIDEBAR________________
_______________
/                                                                   
\
|                  Utah Satanic Abuse Task Force                   
|
|                                                                   
|
| According to a report by Dan Harrie in the Salt
Lake Tribune on    |
| September 19, 1993, the Utah task force charged
with the criminal  |
| investigation of stories of satanic ritual abuse
consipiray crimes |
| has spent $250,000 and has found nothing.  All but
a handful of    |
| cases have been discounted or set aside for lack of
evidence. The  |
| Atty. Gen of Utah, Jan Graham, has yet to settle
the issue. "She  |
| says satanic ritual abuse may be real, may be
phony, or may be a  |
| practice used by child abusers to terrorize victims
and make them  |
| unbelievable witnesses."                                         
|
|  Dr. Corydon Hammond, University of Utah
psychologist and        |
| professor, was interviewed. Reporter Harrie said
that Hammond      |
| seems to want to distance himself from his previous
position on    |
| satanic ritual abuse that was taped in an an
Arlington, VA        |
| training session and which is available from Audio
Transcripts for |
| $100. In June 1992, Hammond said, "My best guess is
that the      |
| purpose of it [the satanists] is that they want an
army of        |
| Manchurian candidates -- tens of thousands of
mental robots who    |
| will do prostitution, do child pornography, smuggle
drugs, engage  |
| in international arms smuggling, do snuff films,
all sorts of      |
| lucrative things and do their bidding. And
eventually, the        |
| megalomaniacs at the top believe, [they will]
create a satanic    |
| order that will rule the world."  Harrie reported
that Hammond    |
| said he has ceased practicing or lecturing in that
area.          |
\____________________________________________________
________________/


                      THE  GREENBAUM  SPEECH

Herein is the lecture by D.C.Hammond, originally
entitled "Hypnosis in
MPD: Ritual Abuse," but now usually known as the
"Greenbaum Speech,"
delivered at the Fourth Annual Eastern Regional
Conference on Abuse
and Multiple Personality, Thursday June 25, 1992, at
the Radisson
Plaza Hotel, Mark Center, Alexandria, Virginia.
Sponsored by the
Center for Abuse Recovery & Empowerment, The
Psychiatric Institute of
Washington, D.C. Both a tape and a transcript were at
one time
available from Audio Transcripts of Alexandria,
Virginia
(800-338-2111). Tapes and transcripts of other
sessions from the
conference are still being sold but -- understandably
-- not this one.
The transcript below was made from a privately made
tape of the
original lecture.

The single most remarkable thing about this speech is
how little one
has heard of it in the years since its original
delivery. It is
recommended that one reads far enough at least until
one finds why
it's called "the Greenbaum speech."

In the introduction the following background
information is given for
                        D. Corydon Hammond:

B.S. M.S. Ph.D (Counseling Psychology) from the
University of Utah
Diplomate in Clinical Hypnosis, the American Board
of Psychological
  Hypnosis
Diplomate in Sex Therapy, the American Board of
Sexology
Clinical Supervisor and Board Examiner, American
Board of Sexology
Diplomate in Marital and Sex Therapy, American Board
of Family
  Psychology
Licensed Psychologist, Licensed Marital Therapist,
Licensed Family
  Therapist, State of Utah
Research Associate Professor of Physical Medicine an
Rehabilitation,
  Utah School of Medicine
Director and Founder of the Sex and Marital Therapy
Clinic,
  University of Utah.
Adjunct Associate Professor of Educational
Psychology, University of
  Utah
Abstract Editor, The American Journal of Clinical
Hypnosis
Advising Editor and Founding Member, Editorial
Board, The Ericsonian
  Monograph
Referee, The Journal of Abnormal Psychology
1989 Presidential Award of Merit, American Society
of Clinical
  Hypnosis
1990 Urban Sector Award, American Society of
Clinical Hypnosis
Current [now Past] President, American Society of
Clinical Hypnosis


          ``THE  GREENBAUM  SPEECH  of  D.C.HAMMOND''

  We've got a lot to cover today and let me give you
a rough
approximate outline of the the things that I'd like
us to get into.
First, let me ask how many of you have had at least
one course or
workshop on hypnosis? Can I see the hands? Wonderful.
That makes our
job easier. Okay. I want to start off by talking a
little about
trance-training and the use of hypnotic phenomena
with an MPD
dissociative-disorder population, to talk some about
unconscious
exploration, methods of doing that, the use of
imagery and symbolic
imagery techniques for managing physical symptoms,
input overload,
things like that. Before the day's out, I want to
spend some time
talking about something I think has been completely
neglected in the
field of dissociative disorder, and that's talking
about methods of
profound calming for automatic hyper-arousal that's
been conditioned
in these patients. We're going to spend a
considerable length of time
talking about age-regression and abreaction in
working through a
trauma. I'll show you with a non-MPD patient -- some
of that kind of
work -- and then extrapolate from what I find so
similar and different
with MPD cases. Part of that, I would add, by the
way, is that I've
been very sensitive through the years about taping
MPD cases or
ritual-abuse cases, part of it being that some of
that feels a little
like using patients and I think that this population
has been used
enough. That's part of the reason, by choice, that I
don't generally
videotape my work. I also want to talk a bunch about
hypnotic relapse-
prevention strategies and post-integration therapy
today. Finally, I
hope to find somewhere in our time-frame to spend on
hour or so
talking specifically about ritual abuse and about
mind-control
programming and brainwashing -- how it's done, how to
get on the
inside with that -- which is a topic that in the past
I haven't been
willing to speak about publicly, have done that in
small groups and in
consultations, but recently decided that it was high
time that
somebody started doing it. So we're going to talk
about specifics
today. [Applause] In Chicago at the first
international congress where
ritual abuse was talked about I can remember
thinking, "How strange
and interesting." I can recall many people listening
to an example
given that somebody thought was so idiosyncratic and
rare, and all the
people coming up after saying, "Gee, you're treating
one, too? You're
in Seattle"...Well, I'm in Toronto...Well, I'm in
Florida...Well, I'm
in Cincinnati." I didn't know what to think at that
point. It wasn't
too long after that I found my first ritual-abuse
patient in somebody
I was already treating and we hadn't gotten that deep
yet. Things in
that case made me very curious about the use of mind-
control
techniques and hypnosis and other brainwashing
techniques. So I
started studying brainwashing and some of the
literature in that area
and became acquainted with, in fact, one of the
people who'd written
one of the better books in that area. Then I decided
to do a survey,
and from the ISSMP&D [International Society for the
Study of Multiple
Personality and Dissociation] folks I picked out
about a dozen and a
half therapists that I though were seeing more of
that than probably
anyone else around and I started surveying them. The
interview
protocol, that I had. got the same reaction almost
without exception.
Those therapists said, "You're asking questions I
don't know the
answers to. You're asking more specific questions
than I've ever asked
my patients." Many of those same therapists said,
"Let me ask those
questions and I'll get back to you with the answer."
Many of them not
only got back with answers, but said, "You've got to
talk to this
patient or these two patients." I ended up doing
hundred of dollars
worth of telephone interviewing. What I came out of
that was a grasp
of a variety of brainwashing methods being used all
over the country.
I started to hear some similarities. Whereas I hadn't
known, to begin
with, how widespread things were, I was now getting a
feeling that
there were a lot of people reporting some similar
things and that
there must be some degree of communication here. Then
approximately
two and a half years ago I had some material drop in
my lap. My source
was saying a lot of things that I knew were accurate
about some of the
brainwashing, but it was telling me new material I
had no idea about.
At this point I took and decided to check it out in
three ritual-abuse
patients I was seeing at the time. Two of the three
had what they were
describing, in careful inquiry without leading or
contaminating. The
fascinating thing was that as I did a telephone-
consult with a
therapist that I'd been consulting for quite a number
of months on an
MPD case in another state, I told her to inquire
about certain things.
She said, "Well, what are those things?" I said, "I'm
not going to
tell you, because I don't want there to be any
possibility of
contamination. Just come back to me and tell me what
the patient
says." She called me back two hours later, said, "I
just had a double
session with this patient and there was a part of him
that said, 'Oh,
we're so excited. If you know about this stuff, you
know how the Cult
Programmers get on the inside and our therapy is
going to go so much
faster.'" Many other patients since have had a
reaction of wanting to
pee their pants out of anxiety and fear rather than
thinking it was
wonderful thing. But the interesting thing was that
she then asked,
"What are these things?" They were word perfect --
same answers my
source had given me. I've since repeated that in many
parts of the
country. I've consulted in eleven states and one
foreign country, in
some cases over the telephone, in some cases in
person, in some cases
giving the therapist information ahead of time and
saying, "Be very
careful how you phrase this. Phrase it in these ways
so you don't
contaminate." In other cases not even giving the
therapist information
ahead of time so they couldn't. When you start to
find the same highly
esoteric information in different states and
different countries, from
Florida to California, you start to get an idea that
there's something
going on that is very large, very well coordinated,
with a great deal
of communication and sytematicness to what's
happening. So I have gone
from someone kind of neutral and not knowing what to
think about it
all to someone who clearly believes ritual abuse is
real and that the
people who say it isn't are either naive like people
who didn't want
to believe the Holocaust or -- they're dirty.
[Applause]

  Now for a long time I would tell a select group of
therapists that I
knew and trusted, information and say, "Spread it
out. Don't spread my
name. Don't say where it came from. But here's some
information. Share
it with other therapists if you find it's on target,
and I'd
appreciate your feedback." People would question --
in talks -- and
say, you know, they were hungry for information.
Myself, as well as a
few others that I've shared it with, were hedging out
of concern and
out of personal threats and out of death threats. I
finally decided to
hell with them. If they're going to kill me, they're
going to kill
me. It's time to share more information with
therapists. Part of that
comes because we proceeded so cautiously and slowly,
checking things
in many different locations and find the same thing.
So I'm going to
give you the way in with ritual-abuse programming. I
certainly can't
tell you everything that you want to know in forty-
five or fifty
minutes, but I'm going to give you the essentials to
get inside and
start working at a new level. I don't know what
proportion, honestly,
of patients have this. I would guess that maybe
somewhere around at
least fifty percent, maybe as high as three-quarters,
I would guess
maybe two-thirds of your ritual-abuse patients may
have this. What do
I think the distinguishing characteristic is? If they
were raised from
birth in a mainstream cult or if they were an non-
bloodline person,
meaning neither parent was in the Cult, but Cult
people had a lot of
access to them in early childhood, they may also have
it. I have seen
more than one ritual-abuse patient who clearly had
all the kind of
ritual things you hear about. They seemed very
genuine. They talked
about all the typical things that you hear in this
population, but had
none of this programming with prolonged extensive
checking. So I
believe in one case I was personally treating that
she was a kind of
schizmatic break-off that had kind of gone off and
done their own
thing and were no longer hooked into a mainstream
group. [Pause]

  Here's where it appears to have come from. At the
end of World War
II, before it even ended, Allen Dulles and people
from our
Intelligence Community were already in Switzerland
making contact to
get out Nazi scientists. As World War II ends, they
not only get out
rocket scientists, but they also get out some Nazi
doctors who have
been doing mind-control research in the camps.

  They brought them to the United States. Along with
them was a young
boy, a teenager, who had been raised in a Hasidic
Jewish tradition and
a background of Cabalistic mysticism that probably
appealed to people
in the Cult because at least by the turn of the
century Aleister
Crowley had been introducing Cabalism into Satanic
stuff, if not
earlier. I suspect it may have formed some bond
between them. But he
saved his skin by collaborating and being an
assistant to them in the
death-camp experiments. They brought him with them.
They started doing
mind-control research for Military Intelligence in
military hospitals
in the United States. The people that came, the Nazi
doctors, were
Satanists. Subsequently, the boy changed his name,
Americanized it
some, obtained an M.D. degree, became a physician and
continued this
work that appears to be at the center of Cult
Programming today. His
name is known to patients throughout the country.
[Pause] What they
basically do is they will get a child and they will
start this, in
basic forms, it appears, by about two and a half
after the child's
already been made dissociative. They'll make him
dissociative not only
through abuse, like sexual abuse, but also things
like putting a
mousetrap on their fingers and teaching the parents,
"You do not go in
until the child stops crying. Only then do you go in
and remove it."
They start in rudimentary forms at about two and a
half and kick into
high gear, it appears, around six or six and a half,
continue through
adolescence with periodic reinforcements in
adulthood. Basically in
the programming the child will be put typically on a
gurney. They will
have an IV in one hand or arm. They'll be strapped
down, typically
naked. There'll be wires attached to their head to
monitor
electroencephalograph patterns. They will see a
pulsing light, most
often described as red, occasionally white or blue.
They'll be given,
most commonly I believe, Demerol. Sometimes it'll be
other drugs as
well depending on the kind of programming. They have
it, I think, down
to a science where they've learned you give so much
every twenty-five
minutes until the programming is done. They then will
describe a pain
on one ear, their right ear generally, where it
appears a needle has
been placed, and they will hear weird, disorienting
sounds in that ear
while they see photic stimulation to drive the brain
into a brainwave
pattern with a pulsing light at a certain frequency
not unlike the
goggles that are now available through Sharper Image
and some of those
kinds of stores. Then, after a suitable period when
they're in a
certain brainwave state, they will begin programming,
programming
oriented to self-destruction and debasement of the
person. In a
patient at this point in time about eight years old
who has gone
through a great deal early programming took place on
a military
installation. That's not uncommon. I've treated and
been involved with
cases who are part of this original mind-control
project as well as
having their programming on military reservations in
many cases. We
find a lot of connections with the CIA. This patient
now was in a Cult
school, a private Cult school where several of these
sessions occurred
a week. She would go into a room, get all hooked up.
They would do all
of these sorts of things. When she was in the proper
altered state,
now they were no longer having to monitor it with
electroencephalographs, she also had already had
placed on her
electrodes, one in the vagina, for example, four on
the head.
Sometimes they'll be on other parts of the body. They
will then begin
and they would say to her, "You are angry with
someone in the group."
She'd say, "No, I'm not" and they'd violently shock
her. They would
say the same thing until she complied and didn't make
any negative
response. Then they would continue. "And because you
are angry with
someone in the group," or "When you are angry with
someone in the
group, you will hurt yourself. Do you understand?"
She said, "No" and
they shocked her. They repeated again, "Do you
understand?" "Well,
yes, but I don't want to." Shock her again until they
get compliance.
Then they keep adding to it. "And you will hurt
yourself by cutting
yourself. Do you understand?" Maybe she'd say yes,
but they might say,
"We don't believe you" and shock her anyway. "Go back
and go over it
again." They would continue in this sort of fashion.
She said
typically it seemed as though they'd go about thirty
minutes, take a
break for a smoke or something, come back. They may
review what they'd
done and stopped or they might review what they'd
done and go on to
new material. She said the sessions might go half an
hour, they might
go three hours. She estimated three times a week.
Programming under
the influence of drugs in a certain brainwave state
and with these
noises in one ear and them speaking in the other ear,
usually the left
ear, associated with right hemisphere non-dominant
brain functioning,
and with them talking, therefore, and requiring
intense concentration,
intense focusing. Because often they'll have to
memorize and say
certain things back, word-perfect, to avoid
punishment, shock, and
other kinds of things that are occurring. This is
basically how a lot
of programming goes on. Some of it'll also use other
typical
brainwashing kinds of techniques. There will be very
standardized
types of hypnotic things done at times. There'll be
sensory
deprivation which we know increases suggestibility in
anyone. Total
sensory deprivation, suggestibility has significantly
increased, from
the research. It's not uncommon for them to use a
great deal of that,
including formal sensory-deprivation chambers before
they do certain
of these things. [Pause] Now let me give you, because
we don't have a
lot of time, as much practical information as I can.
The way that I
would inquire as to whether or not some of this might
be there would
be with ideomotor finger-signals. After you've set
them up I would
say, "I want the central inner core of you to take
control of the
finger-signals." Don't ask the unconscious mind. The
case where you're
inquiring about ritual abuse, that's for the central
inner core. The
core is a Cult-created part. "And I want that central
inner core of
you to take control of this hand of these finger-
signals and what it
has for the yes-finger to float up. I want to ask the
inner core of
you is there any part of you, any part of Mary,"
that's the host's
name, "who knows anything about Alpha, Beta, Delta,
or Theta." If you
get a Yes, it should raise a red flag that you might
have someone with
formal intensive brainwashing and programming in
place. I would then
ask and say, "I want a part inside who knows
something about Alpha,
Beta, Delta, and Theta to come up to a level where
you can speak to me
and when you're here say, 'I'm here.'" I would not
ask if a part was
willing to. No one's going to particularly want to
talk about this. I
would just say, "I want some part who can tell me
about this to come
out." Without leading them ask them what these things
are. I've had
consults where I've come in. Sometimes I've gotten a
Yes to that, but
as I've done exploration it appeared to be some kind
of compliance
response or somebody wanting, in two or three cases,
to appear maybe
that they were ritual abuse and maybe they were in
some way, but with
careful inquiry and looking it was obvious that they
did not have what
we were looking for. Let me tell you what these are.
Let's suppose
that this whole front row here are multiples and that
she has an alter
named Helen and she has one named Mary, she has one
named Gertrude,
she has one named Elizabeth, and she has one named
Monica. Every one
of those alters may have put on it a program, perhaps
designated
alpha-zero-zero-nine a Cult person could say, "Alpha-
zero-zero-nine"
or make some kind of hand gesture to indicate this
and get the same
part out in any one of them even though they had
different names that
they may be known by to you. Alphas appear to
represent general
programming, the first kind of things put in. Betas
appear to be
sexual programs. For example, how to perform oral sex
in a certain
way, how to perform sex in rituals, having to do with
producing child
pornography, directing child pornography,
prostitution. Deltas are
killers trained in how to kill in ceremonies.
There'll also be some
self-harm stuff mixed in with that, assassination and
killing. Thetas
are called psychic killers. You know, I had never in
my life heard
those two terms paired together. I'd never heard the
words "psychic
killers" put together, but when you have people in
different states,
including therapists inquiring and asking, "What is
Theta," and
patients say to them, "Psychic killers," it tends to
make one a
believer that certain things are very systematic and
very widespread.
This comes from their belief in psychic sorts of
abilities and powers,
including their ability to psychically communicate
with "mother'"
including their ability to psychically cause somebody
to develop a
brain aneurysm and die. It also is a more future-
oriented kind of
programming. Then there's Omega. I usually don't
include that word
when I say my first question about this or any part
inside that knows
about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta because Omega will
shake them even
more. Omega has to do with self-destruct programming.
Alpha and Omega,
the beginning and the end. This can include self-
mutilation as well as
killing-themselves programming. Gamma appears to be
system-protection
and deception programming which will provide
misinformation to you,
try to misdirect you, tell you half-truths, protect
different things
inside. There can also be other Greek letters. I'd
recommend that you
go and get your entire Greek alphabet and if you have
verified that
some of this stuff is present and they have given you
some of the
right answers about what some of this material is,
and I can't
underline enough: DO NOT LEAD THEM. Do not say, "Is
this killers?" Get
the answer from them, please. When you've done this
and it appears to
be present, I would take your entire Greek alphabet
and, with
ideomotor signals, go through the alphabet and say,
"Is there any
programming inside associated with epsilon, omicron,"
and go on
through. There may be some sytematicness to some of
the other letter,
but I'm not aware of it. I've found, for example, in
one case that
Zeta had to do with the production of snuff films
that this person was
involved with. With another person, Omicron had to do
with their
linkage and associations with drug smuggling and with
the Mafia and
with big business and government leaders. So there's
going to be some
individualism, I think, in some of those. Some of
those are come-home
programs, "come back to the Cult", "return to the
Cult" program.
Here's the flaw in the system. They have built in
shut-down and
erasure codes so if they got into trouble they could
shut something
down and they could also erase something. These codes
will sometimes
be idiosyncratic phrases, or ditties. Sometimes they
will be numbers
maybe followed by a word. There's some real
individuality to that. At
first I had hoped if we can get some of these maybe
they'll work with
different people. No such luck. It's very unlikely
unless they were
programmed at about the same point in time as part of
the same little
group. Stuff that I've seen suggests that they carry
laptop computers,
the programmers, which still include everything that
they did twenty,
thirty years ago in them in terms of the names of
alters, the
programs, the codes, and so on. Now what you can do
is get erasure
codes, and I always ask, "If I say this code, what
will happen?'
Doublecheck. "Is there any part inside who has
different information?"
Watch your ideomotor signals and what I've found is
you can erase
programs by giving the appropriate codes, but then
you must abreact
the feelings. So if you erase Omega, which is often
where I've started
because it's the most high risk. Afterwards I will
get all the Omega,
what were formerly Omega alters, together so that we
will abreact and
give back to the host the memories associated with
all the programming
that was done with Omega and anything any Omega part
ever had to do in
a fractionated abreaction. They use the metaphor --
and it is their
metaphor -- of robots. and it is like a robot shell
comes down over
the child alter to make them act in robotic fashion.
Once in a while
internally you'll confront robots. What I found from
earlier work, and
so I speed the process up now because I confirmed it
enough times, is
that you can say to the core, "Core, I want you to
look -- there's
this robot blocking the way in some way, blocking the
progress. Go
around and look at the back of the head and tell me
what you notice on
the back of the head or the neck." I just ask it very
non-leading like
that and what's commonly said to me is that there
were wires or a
switch. So I'll tell them, "Hold the wires or flip
the switch and it
will immobilize the robot and give me a yes-signal
when you've done
it." Pretty soon you get a yes-signal. "Great. Now
that the robot is
immobilized, I want you to look inside the robot and
tell me what you
see." It's generally one or several children. I have
them remove the
children. I do a little hypnotic magic and ask the
core to use a laser
and vaporize the robot so nothing is left. They're
usually quite
amazed that this works, as have been a number of
therapists. [Pause]
Now there are many different layers of this stuff is
the problem. Let
me come over to the overhead and give some ideas
about them. What we
have up here are innumerable alters. I'll tell you
one of the
fascinating things I've seen. I remember a little
over a year ago
coming in to see some cases, some of the tough cases
at a
dissociative-disorders unit of a couple of the finest
of the MPD
therapists in this country, who are always part of
all the
international meetings, have lectured
internationally. We worked and I
look at some of their patients. They were amazed at
certain things
because they had not been aware of this before. As we
worked with some
of the patients and confirmed it, I remember one
woman who'd been
inpatient for three years, still was inpatient.
Another who had one
intensive year of inpatient work with all the finest
MPD therapy you
can imagine -- abreactions, integrations,
facilitating cooperation,
art therapy, on and on and on, journaling,
intensively for one
inpatient year followed by an intensive year of
outpatient therapy
two, three hours a week. In both patients we found
out that all of
this great work had done nothing but deal with the
alters up here and
had not touched the mind-control programming. In fact
it was not only
intact, but we found that the one who was outpatient
was having her
therapy monitored every session by her mother, out-
of-state, over the
telephone, and that she still had intact suggestions
that had been
give to her at a certain future time to kill her
therapist. Now one of
the things that I would very carefully check is, I
would suggest that
you ask the core, not just the unconscious mind, ask
the core, "Is
there any part inside that continues to have contact
with people
associated with the Cult? Is there any part inside
who goes to Cult
rituals or meetings? Is there a recording device
inside of Mary," if
that's the host's name, "a recording device inside so
that someone can
find out the things that are said in sessions?" This
doesn't mean
they're monitored. Many of them just simply have it.
"Is there someone
who debriefs some part inside for what happens in our
therapy
sessions?" I have the very uncomfortable feeling from
some past
experience that when you look at this you will find
the large
proportion of ritual-abuse victims in this country
are having their
ongoing therapy monitored. I remember a woman who
came in about
twenty-four years old, claimed her father was a
Satanist. Her parents
divorced when she was six. After that it would only
when her father
had visitation and he would take her to rituals
sometimes up until age
fifteen. She said, "I haven't gone to anything since
I was fifteen."
Her therapist believed this at face value. We sat in
my office. We did
a two-hour inquiry using hypnosis. We found the
programming present.
In addition to that we found that every therapy
session was debriefed
and in fact they had told her to get sick and not
come to the
appointment with me. Another one had been told that I
was Cult and
that if she came I would know that she'd been told
not to come and I
would punish her. If anything meaningful comes out in
a patient who's
being monitored like that -- from what I've learned
thus far, they're
tortured with electric shocks -- my belief is if
they're in that
situation you can't do meaningful therapy other than
being supportive
and caring and letting them know you care a lot and
you'll be there to
support them. But I wouldn't try to work with any
kind of deep
material or deprogramming with them because I think
it can do nothing
but get them tortured and hurt unless they can get
into a safe, secure
inpatient unit for an extended period of time to do
some of the work
required. I have a feeling that when you make
inquiries you're going
to find that probably greater than fifty percent of
these patients, if
they're bloodline, meaning mother or dad or both
involved, will be
monitored on some ongoing basis. [Pause] Now when you
come below the
alters, you then have Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta, so
and so forth, the
Greek-letter programming and they will then have
backup programs.
There will typically be an erasure code for the
backups. There may be
one code that combines all the backups into one and
then an erasure
code for them, simply one code that erases all the
backups. So I will
get the code for, let's say, Omega and for all the
Omega backups at
the same time. After I've asked "What will happen if
I give this," I
will give the code and then I will say, "What are you
experiencing?"
They often describe computer whirring, things
erasing, explosions
inside, all sorts of interesting things. I've had
some therapists
come back and say, "My Lord, I had never said
anything about robots
she said something about robots vaporizing." I
remember one therapist
who'd been with me in several hypnosis workshops and
consulted with me
about a crisis MPD situation. I told her to inquire
about Alpha, Beta,
Delta, Theta. She did. She got back to me saying,
"Yeah, I got an
indication it's there. What is it?" I said, "I'm not
going to tell
you. Go back and inquire about some of this." We set
an appointment
for a week or so hence. She got back with me and
said, "I asked what
Theta was and she said, 'psychic killers.' I asked
her what Delta was
and she said 'killers.'" Okay. So I told her about
some of this stuff
for a two-hour consult. She called back and she said,
"This seemed too
fantastic. I heard this and I thought, 'Has Cory been
working too
hard?'" she said, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but
she said, "I held
you in high professional regard, but this just
sounded so off in the
twilight zone that I really thought, 'Is he having a
nervous breakdown
or something?'" She said, "But I respected you enough
to ask about
this." She said, "I asked another MPD patient and she
didn't have any
of this." So in this patient she started describing
things and how she
worked, for example, with an erasure and she was
describing things
like robots vaporizing and kinds of things. She said,
"I hadn't told
her about any of these things." Well, here's the
problem. There are
different layers and I think some of them are
designed to keep us
going in circles forever. They figured we probably,
in most cases,
wouldn't get below the alters which they purposefully
created.

  The way you create Manchurian Candidates is you
divide the mind.
It's part of what the Intelligence Community wanted
to look at. If
you're going to get an assassin, you're going to get
somebody to go do
something, you divide the mind. It fascinates me
about cases like the
assassination of Robert Kennedy, where Bernard
Diamond, on examining
Sirhan Sirhan found that he had total amnesia of the
killing of Robert
Kennedy, but under hypnosis could remember it. But
despite suggestions
he would be able to consciously remember, could not
remember a thing
after was out of hypnosis. I'd love to examine Sirhan
Sirhan.

  It appears that below this we've got some other
layers. One is
called "Green Programming" it appears. Isn't it
interesting that the
doctor's name is Dr. Green? One of the questions in a
way that does
not contaminate is after I've identified some of this
stuff is there
and they've given me a few right answers about what
some of it is, "If
there were a doctor associated with this programming
and his name were
a color, you know, like Dr. Chartreuse or something,
if his name were
a color, what color would the color be?" Now once in
a while I've had
some other colors mentioned in about three or four
patients that I
felt were trying to dissimulate in some way and I
don't really believe
had this. In one case I got another color and I found
out later it was
a doctor whose name was a color who was being trained
by Dr. Green
almost thirty years ago and he supervised part of the
programming of
this woman under this doctor. I remember one woman
couldn't come up
with anything. No alter would speak up with anything.
I said, "Okay,"
and we went on to some other material. About two
minutes later she
said, "Green. Do you mean Dr. Green?" We found this
all over. There
appears to be some Green Programming below that and I
suspect that you
get down to fewer and more central programs the
deeper you go. Well,
all Green Programming is Ultra-Green and the Green
Tree. Cabalistic
mysticism is mixed all into this. If you're going to
work with this
you need to pick up a couple of books on the Cabala.
One is by a man
named Dion Fortune called "Qabala" with a "q," Dion
Fortune. Another
is by Ann Williams-Heller and it's called "The
Kabbalah." I knew
nothing about the Cabala. It was interesting. A
patient had sat in my
waiting area, got there considerably early and drew a
detailed
multicolored Cabalistic Tree over two years ago. It
took me two months
to figure out what it was. Finally, showing it to
somebody else who
said, "You know? That looks an awful lot like the
Cabala Tree" and
that rang a bell with some esoteric in an old book
and I dug it
out. That was the background of Dr. Green.

  Now the interesting thing about the Green Tree is
his original name
was Greenbaum. What does "greenbaum" mean in German?
Green Tree,
Ultra-Tree and the Green Tree. I've also had patients
who didn't
appear to know that his original name was Greenbaum,
volunteered that
there were parts inside named Mr. Greenbaum. Now let
me give you some
information about parts inside that may be helpful to
you if you're
going to inquire about these things, because my
experience is one part
will give you some information and either run dry or
get defensive or
scared and stop. and so you punt and you make an end
run and you come
around the other direction, you find another part.
I'll tell you
several parts to ask for and ask if there's a part by
this name. And,
by the way, when I'm screening patients and fiddling
around with this,
I throw in a bunch of spurious ones and ask, "Is
there a part inside
by this name and by that name" as a check on whether
or not it appears
genuine. For example. "In addition to the core," I
ask, "is there a
part inside named Wisdom?" Wisdom is a part of the
Cabalistic Tree.
Wisdom, I've often found, will be helpful and give
you a lot of
information. "Is there a part inside named Diana?" I
mean I may throw
in all sorts of things. "Is there a part inside named
Zelda?" I've
never encountered one yet! Just to see what kind of
answers we get. I
try to do this carefully. Diana is a part that, in
the Cabalistic
system, is associated with a part called the
Foundation. You will be
fascinated to know that. Remember the Process Church?
Roman Polanski's
wife, Sharon Tate, was killed by the Manson Family
who were associated
with the Process Church? A lot of prominent people in
Hollywood were
associated and then they went underground, the books
say, in about
seventy-eight and vanished? Well, they're alive and
well in southern
Utah. We have a thick file in the Utah Department of
Public Safety
documenting that they moved to southern Utah, north
of Monument
Valley, bought a movie ranch in the desert, renovated
it, expanded it,
built a bunch of buildings there, carefully monitored
so that very few
people go out of there and no one can get in and
changed their name. A
key word in their name is "Foundation." The
Foundation. There are
some other words. The Foundation is part of the Tree.
So you can ask,
"Is there something inside known as The Foundation?"
I might ask other
things to throw people off. "Is there something known
as the Sub-
Basement?" Well, maybe they'll conceive of something.
Or "Is there
something known as the Walls?" There are a variety of
questions you
can come up with, to sort of screen some things. I've
also found that
there will often be a part called "Black Master," a
part called
"Master Programmer," and that there will be computer
operators inside.
How many of you have come into computer things in
patients? There will
typically be computer operators: Computer Operator
Black, Computer
Operator Green, Computer Operator Purple. Sometimes
they'll have
numbers instead, sometimes they'll be called Systems
Information
Directors. You can find out the head one of those.
There'll be a
source of some information for you. I will ask
inside, "Is there a
part inside named Dr. Green?" You'll find that there
are, if they have
this kind of programming, in my experience. Usually
with a little work
and reframing, you can turn them and help them to
realize that they
were really a child-part who's playing a role and
they had no choice
then, but they do now. You know, they played their
role very, very
well, but they don't have to continue to play it with
you because
they're safe here and in fact, "If the Cult simply
found out that you
talked to me, that they you had shared information
with me, you tell
me what would they do to you?" Emphasize that the
only way out is
through me and that they need to cooperate and share
information and
help me and that I'll help them. So all these parts
can give you
various information. Now they have tried to protect
this very
carefully. Let me give you an example with Ultra-
Green. I discovered
this -- by the way I used to think this programming
was only in
bloodline people. I've discovered it in non-bloodline
people, but it's
a bit different. They don't want it to be just the
same. I don't think
you'll find deep things like Ultra-Green and probably
not even Green
Programming with non-bloodline people. But let me
tell you something
that I discovered first in a non-bloodline and then
in a bloodline. We
were going along and a patient was close to getting
well, approaching
final integration in a non-bloodline and she suddenly
started
hallucinating and her fingers were becoming hammers
and other things
like that. So I used an affect-bridge and we went
back and we found
that what happened was that they gave suggestions,
that if she ever
got well to a certain point she would go crazy. The
way they did this
was they strapped her down and they gave her LSD when
she was eight
years old. When she began hallucinating they inquired
about the nature
of the hallucinations so they could utilize them in
good Ericsonian
fashion and build on them and then combine the drug-
effect with
powerful suggestions. "If you ever get to this point
you will go
crazy. If you ever get fully integrated and get well
you will go crazy
like this and will be locked up in an institution for
the rest of your
life. They gave those suggestions vigorously and
repetitively.
Finally they introduced other suggestions that,
"Rather than have this
happen, it would be easier to just kill yourself." In
a bloodline
patient then, as I began inquiring about deep
material, the patient
started to experience similar symptoms. We went back
and we found the
identical things were done to her.

  This was called the "Green Bomb." B-O-M-B. Lots of
interesting
internal consistencies like that play on words with
Dr. Greenbaum, his
original name. Now in this case it was done to her at
age nine for the
first time and then only hers was different. Hers was
a suggestion for
amnesia. "If you ever remember anything about Ultra-
Green and the
Green Tree you will go crazy. You will become a
vegetable and be
locked up forever." Then finally the suggestions
added, "And it'll be
easier to just kill yourself than have that happen to
you, if you ever
remember it." At age twelve then, three years later,
they used what
sounds like an Amytol interview to try to breach the
amnesia and find
out if they could. They couldn't. So then they
strapped her down
again, took and gave her something to kind of
paralyze her body, gave
her LSD, an even bigger dose and reinforced all the
suggestions. Did a
similar thing at the age of sixteen. So these are
some of the kind of
booby traps you run into. There are a number of cases
where they
combined powerful drug effects like this with
suggestions to keep us
from discovering some of this deeper level stuff.
What's the bottom?
Your guess is as good as mine but I can tell you that
I've had a lot
of therapists who were stymied with these cases who
were going
nowhere. In fact someone here that I told some basic
information
about this to in Ohio a couple of months ago said it
opened all sorts
of things up in a patient who'd been going nowhere.
That's an often
common thing. I think that we can move down to deeper
levels and if we
deal with some of the deeper level stuff it may
destroy all the stuff
above it. But we don't even know that yet. In some of
the patients I'm
working with we have pretty much dealt with a lot of
the top-level
stuff. I'll tell you how we've done some of that.
We'll take and
erase one system like Omega. Then we will have a huge
abreaction of
all the memories and feelings in a fractionated
abreaction associated
with those parts. I typically find I'll say to them,
"Now that we've
done this are there any other memories and feelings
that any parts
that were Omega still have?" The answer's usually
"No." At that point
I will say, "I usually find at this point in time the
majority, if not
all, of those parts that used to be Omega no longer
feel a desire or
need to be different, realizing that you split off
originally by them
and want to go home to Mary and become one with her
again." I use the
concept often now -- which came from a patient -- of
going home and
becoming one with her. "Going back from whence you
came" is another
phrase I'll use with them. "Are there any Omega parts
inside who do
not feel comfortable with that or have reservations
or concerns about
that?" If there are we talk to them. We deal with
them. A few may not
integrate. My experience is most of the time they'll
integrate and we
may integrate twenty-five parts at once in a
polyfragmented complex
MPD. I think it is vitally important to abreact the
feelings before
you go on. Also for many patients it hasn't seemed to
matter the order
we go in but I've found a couple where it has. If it
doesn't seem to
matter I'll typically go Omega, then Delta because
they have more
violence potential, then Gamma to get rid of the
self-deception stuff.
What I will do before I just assume anything and do
that, is once
we've done Omega and showed them that success can
occur and something
can happen and they feel relief after, I will say to
them, "I want to
ask the core -- through the fingers -- is there a
specific order in
which programs must be erased?" You know maybe it
doesn't matter but
most of the time I found "No." There are cases where
we found "Yes."
I recommend doing one or two or three of those
because they'll produce
relief and and a sense of optimism in the patient.
But then I would
recommend starting to probe for the deeper level
things and getting
their input and recommendations about the order in
which we go.

  Question?

  Q: What has been the typical age and typical gender
of this type of
person?

  Dr.H: I know of this being found in men and women.
Most of the
patients I know with MPD ritual abuse that are being
treated are
women, however. I know of some men being treated
where we've found
this. A while back I was talking to a small group of
therapists
somewhere. I told them about some of this. In the
middle of talking
about some of this all the color drained out of one
social worker's
face and she obviously had a reaction and I asked her
about and she
said, "I'm working with a five-year-old boy," and she
said, "Just in
the last few weeks he was saying something about a
Dr. Green." I went
on a little further and I mentioned some of these
things and she just
shook her head again. I said, "What's going on?" She
said, "He's been
spontaneously telling me about robots and about
Omega." I think you
will find variations of this and that they've changed
it, probably
every few years and maybe somewhat regionally to
throw us off in
various ways but that certain basics and fundamentals
will probably be
there. I have seen this in people up into their
forties including
people whose parents were very, very high in the CIA,
other sorts of
things like that. I've had some that were originally
part of the
Monarch Project which is the name of the government
Intelligence
project.

  Question in the back?

  Q: I'm still not grasping how one starts, how you
find out how to
erase. How do you get that information?

  Dr.H: I would say, "I want the core, if necessary,
using the
telepathic communication ability you have to read
minds," because they
believe in that kind of stuff, "so I'll use it..." I
was trained in
Ericsonian stuff, "...to obtain for me the erasure
code of all Omega
programs. When you've done so, I want the yes-finger
to float up."
Then I ask them to tell it to me. "Are there backups
for Omega
programs?" "Yes." "Okay? How many backups are there?"
"Six," they say,
let's say. It's different numbers. "Is there an
erasure code for all
the backup programs?" "No." "Is there an erasure code
that combines
all the backups into one?" "Yes." "Obtain that code
for me and when
you've go it give me the yes-signal again." It can
move almost that
fast in some cases where there's not massive
resistance.

  Question?

  Q: Yes, can you tell me what you know about the
risks to the
therapist? [Laughter]

  Dr.H: You would have to ask.

  Q: Yeah, I'd like to know that. What kind of data
do you have given
that you've had contact with large numbers of people.
Not just threats
but also any injury, any family problems that have
arisen. That's one
question. A second one is are you aware of anybody
that you've treated
-- or others -- with this level of dissociation and
trauma that have
recovered? Integrated? Whole and happy?

  Dr.H: Okay, I have one non-bloodline multiple,
complex multiple who
had this kind of programming where they have a lot of
access to the
patient as neighbors and where the doctor, by the
way, you'll find
physicians heavily involved. They've encouraged their
own to go to
medical school, to prescribe drugs to take care of
their own, to get
access to medical technology and be above suspicion.
There have been
a couple, in fact, in Utah who've been nailed now. We
now in Utah have
two full time ritual-abuse investigators with
statewide jurisdiction
under the Attorney General's Office to do nothing but
investigate
this. [Applause] Okay? In a poll done in the State of
Utah in January
by the major newspaper and television station, they
found that ninety
percent of Utahans believe that ritual abuse is
genuine and real. Not
all of them believe it's a frequent occurrence but
some of that was
imparted from two years of work by the Governor
Commission on Ritual
Abuse, interviewing, talking, meeting people,
gathering data. Now when
people say, by the way, "There's no evidence. They've
never found a
body," that's baloney. They found a body in Idaho of
a child. They've
had a case last summer that was convicted on first-
degree murder
charges, two people that the summer before that were
arrested where
the teenaged girl's finger and head were in the
refrigerator and they
were convicted of first-degree murder in Detroit.
There have been
cases and bodies. Back to risk. I know of no
therapist who's been
harmed. But patients inform us that there will come a
future time
where we could be at risk of being assassinated by
patients who've
been programmed to kill at a certain time anyone that
they've told and
any member of their own family who's not active. If
that would come
about is speculative. Who knows for sure? Maybe, but
I don't think
it's entirely without risk.

  A question in the back?

  Q: It seems to me that there seems to be some
similarity between
these kinds of programming and those people who claim
that they've
been abducted by spaceships and have had themselves
physically probed
and reprogrammed and all of that sort of thing. Since
Cape Canaveral
is across the Florida peninsula from me and I don't
think that they've
reported any spaceships lately, I was just wondering
is there any sort
of relationship between this and that?

  Dr.H: I'll share my speculation, that comes from
others really. I've
not dealt with any of those people. However, I know a
therapist that I
know and trust and respect who I've informed about
all this a couple
of years ago and has found it in a lot of patients
and so on, who is
firmly of the belief that those people are in fact
ritual-abuse
victims who have been programmed with that sort of
thing to destroy
all their credibility. If somebody's coming in and
reporting abduction
by a flying sauce who's going to believe them on
anything else in the
future? Also as a kind of thing that can be pointed
to and said, "This
is as ridiculous as that." All I know is that I
recently had a
consult, a telephone consult, with a therapist where
I had been
instructing her about some of this kind of stuff.
When we were
consulting at one point in the fifth or sixth
interview she said, "By
the way, do you know anything about this topic?" I
said, "Well, not
really" and shared with her what I shared with you. I
said, "If it
were me being with this guy..." that she'd been
seeing for a couple of
months, I said, "I would ask inside for the core to
take control of
finger-signals and inquire about Alpha, Beta, Delta,
Theta." She
proceeded to do all that, got back to me a week later
and said, "Boy,
were you on target. There is a part inside named Dr.
Green. There's
this kind of programming."

  Yes?

  Q: What's the difference between this kind of
program and cult-type
abuse and Satanic abuse in the kind of cults with the
candles and
the...

  Dr.H: This type of programming will be done in the
cults with the
candles and all the rest. My impression is this is
simply done in
people where they have great access to them or
they're bloodline and
their parents are in it and they can be raised in it
from an early
age. If they are bloodline they are the chosen
generation. If not,
they're expendable and they are expected to die and
not get well.
There will be booby traps in your way if they aren't
non-bloodline
people that when they get well they will kill
themselves. I'll tell
you just a little about that. My belief is that some
people that have
ritual abuse and don't have this have been ritually
abused but they
may be may be part of a non-mainstream group. The
Satanism comes in
the overall philosophy overriding all of this. People
say, "What's
the purpose of it?" My best guess is that the purpose
of it is that
they want an army of Manchurian Candidates, ten of
thousands of mental
robots who will do prostitution, do child
pornography, smuggle drugs,
engage in international arms smuggling, do snuff
films, all sorts of
very lucrative things and do their bidding and
eventually the
megalomaniacs at the top believe they'll create a
Satanic Order that
will rule the world.

  One last question. Then I'll give you couple of
details and we need
to shift gears.

  Q: You have suggested and implied that at some
point at a high level
of the U.S. Government there was support of this kind
of thing. I know
we're short of time, but could you just say a few
words about the
documentation that may exist for that suggestion?

  Dr.H: There isn't great documentation of it. It
comes from victims
who are imperiled witnesses. The interesting thing is
how many people
have described the same scenario and how many people
that we have
worked with who have had relatives in NASA, in the
CIA and in the
Military, including very high-ups in the Military. I
can tell you that
a friend and colleague of mine who has probably the
equivalent of half
the table space on that far side of the room filled
with boxes with
declassified documents from mind-control research
done in the past
which has been able to be declassified over a
considerable -- couple
of decades -- period and has read more government
documents about mind
control than anyone else, has a brief that has
literally been sent in
the past week and a half asking for all information
to be declassified
about the Monarch Project for us to try to find out
more. Now let me
just mention something about some of the stuff that
my experience is
in several patients now that you may run into late in
the process. I
know I'm throwing a lot at you in a hurry. Some of it
is completely
foreign and some of you may think, "Gosh, could any
of this be true?"
Just, you know, ask. Find out in your patients and
you may be lucky
and there isn't any of this. Somewhere at a deep
level you may run
into some things like this. Let me describe to you,
if I can find my
pen, the system in one patient. One patient I had
treated for quite a
while, a non-bloodline person. We had done what
appeared to be
successful work and reached final integration. She
came back to me
early last year and said she was symptomatic with
some things. I
started inquiring. I found a part there we'd
integrated. The part
basically said, "There was other stuff that I
couldn't tell you about
and you integrated me and so I had to split off." I
had done some
inquiring about things like Alpha, Beta as a routine
part of it and
found they were there and I said to this part, "Why
didn't you tell me
about this stuff?" She said, "Well, we gave you some
hints but they
went right over your head." Says, "I'm sorry, but we
know that you
didn't know enough to help us but now we know you
can." So the stuff
started coming out. It was interesting. She described
the overall
system -- if I can remember it now -- as being like
this. The circle
represented harm to the body, a system of alters
whose primary purpose
was to hurt her including symptoms like
Munchhausen's, self-
mutilation, other kinds of things. Each of the
triangles represented
still another different system. She said, "With the
exception of me,"
this one part, "you dealt with the whole circle with
the work that we
did before but you didn't touch the rest of the
stuff." Okay. In the
middle of all this was still another system
consisting of the
Cabalistic Tree, which some of you are aware, looks
approximately like
this with lines in between and so on and so forth.
There's a rough
approximation. That represented another system. Then
once we got past
that she implied that this entire thing was somehow
encompassed by,
what do you call it, an hourglass. I kept thinking we
were at final
integration then I'd find some other parts. This
person had an eagle-
eye husband that was watching for certain things that
we found to be
reliable indicators. So often I would get evidence of
dissociation
within a few days. It would suddenly be picked up.
You know, what we
found was I continued to find evidence of
dissociation and I'd find
parts. Finally this part, as I got angry with him and
said, "Why when
I give these ideomotor inquiries am I getting lied
to?" This part
said, "Because you don't understand. You're going to
get us all
killed." We started talking and then she basically
said, "It's been
programmed so that if you succeed and think you've
succeeded, you will
fail. They build it in as a way to laugh at you, that
if you ever get
us integrated, we will die." Here's what she said,
this part said,
"I'm one of twelve disciples," and I've seen this in
others, twelve
disciples within this hourglass each of whom had to
memorize a
disciple-lesson which were basic Satanic kind of
premises,
philosophies of life like "be good to those who hurt
you, hate those
who are nice to you," on and on and on. There may be
two or three
sentences like that associated with each that they
had to memorize
them. They said, "We are like grains of sand falling
and when the last
grain of sand falls, there's Death." I said, "Is
Death a part?"
"Yes. When the last grain of sand falls the Sleeping
Giant awakens."
The Sleeping Giant was Death, who was then to kill
them on Day-One or
Day-Six after awakening unless certain things were
followed and we did
some of those. Well we also found Death had a sister
as a backup, used
with mirrors to create the sister part. We had to get
past and deal
with that too. Death had certain things that they
said had to be done
to integrate. I started to say, "Oh, come on, they
lied to you
before." She said, "Wait a minute. This what they
said you'd say.
They said that no doctor would ever believe that they
had to go these
extremes to get us well and that's part of the reason
they'd fail." I
said, "Well, tell me, tell me again." She said, "I
have to be dressed
all in red. I have to have Demerol onboard, have
taken Demerol. A code
has to be given and it has to be in a room that's
totally dark. It has
to happen on Day-One or Day-Six after this part's
been awakened." I
said what I'd have to lose? I had a psychiatrist give
her a little
Demerol. We used the code. My office didn't have any
windows anyway.
It was pretty easy. Oh, and there had to be four, I
think, candles
lit. Well, fine. So we did it and everything went
well. Maybe it would
have gone well if we hadn't done it, but I decided
not to take the
chance and to trust the patient maybe. Well, so we go
on and then we
find another part. There's Death And Destruction,
another backup also
with a sister that we had to get through. In fact, I
think there were
two backups there. Interestingly, the very last part
was an extremely
nice part, made especially that way so that they
wouldn't want to lose
them because they would be so adorable and so loving
and so sweet that
they wouldn't want to maybe get rid of them. Then we
found that she
continued to have these feelings with this last part
left now of
darkness and blackness inside. What did we find? A
curtain. She said,
"They assumed that if you ever got to this point, you
would," and
along the way, by the way, we had encountered this
stuff about the LSD
stuff, the Green Bomb programming. The message was
that she said,
"There is a curtain behind which are the remaining
feelings and
memories, but it can't be opened from the middle.
It's like a stage
curtain. It has to opened this way," that it can't be
opened. They
assumed that you would try to deal with all the
feelings. That can't
be opened until you've dealt with that last part and
they've
integrated. So far it looks like we've got
integration that's holding.
So I found Death And Destruction and the Hourglass in
non-bloodline.
"The Tree and the Hourglass," this patient informed
me, "were made of
sand because we were meant to die. We're expendable.
We're the
unchosen generation." I've heard variously that it's
crystals or blood
that fills the Hourglass in bloodline people. By the
way, you can do
real simple things like turn the Hourglass on its
side so nothing can
fall out, so time stands still to be able to do
certain kinds of work.
Spread the grains of sand on the seashore so that
they can't be
numbered and the time will not be counted. Got that
idea from a
ritual-abuse victim who had seen some of this kind of
programming done
that another therapist was seeing. So those would be
just a few other
hints about things that may be helpful or meaningful.
We're talking
about very intensive things and at deep levels to to
me this give us
two things. One thing it gives to me is hope because
it gets to
material and it makes progress like nothing else
we've ever seen with
these people who have it. The second thing it does
for me is it
demoralizes me, too, because although three years ago
I had a pretty
good idea about the extent and breadth of what they'd
one to these
victims, I had no real appreciation for the depth and
breadth and
intensity of what they'd done.

  I want to come back to the other question over here
now. The other
question is how many of them can get well? We don't
know. In most
things in the mental health profession we accept two-
thirds of the
patients are going to improve, maybe seventy percent.
There's very
little we can get everybody well. I think one of the
sad things we
have to face is that many of these patients will
probably never be
well. My personal belief is that if they are being
messed with their
only hope of getting well is if they can somehow get
out of contact.
Now I know patients who've gone to other states and
simply had deep-
level alters pick