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Topic: virus == a religion? (Read 1884 times) |
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uberbastard
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virus == a religion?
« on: 2002-07-20 14:03:20 » |
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Virus is ...
- a memetically engineered atheistic religion
From the collegiate dictionary at http://www.m-w.com:
Main Entry: re·li·gion
1 : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
From the Virus Lexicon:
BELIEF:(vl) To believe a statement or proposition P is to act as if P is held to be true. It is not necessary that the belief be conscious nor certain.
While the notion that the virian set of ideas being called a 'religion', and fashioning a 'church' out of itself is a fascinating idea, it seems to me that calling it such is going against it's one of it's main principals (reason).
From the text above, one can make the deduction that religion (used in it's standard definition) requires a belief, or belief structure in order to make it such.
A belief (used in it's standard definition) does not require reason of any kind in order for it to exist in a person's (or societies collective) mind. I do not recall the movie i heard this in, but it was railing against the idea of believing in anything, but instead, having a good idea about a particular basic notion. The entire basis of a belief, IMO is blind faith in something, or someone, obviously not requiring a reasonable explanation of any kind, as that would destroy the very point of believing in something.
And since the basis of any good religion is a solid belief structure, isn't calling Virus a religion a little bit off-base? In other words, since the ideas of belief and reason simply don't mix very well, it would seem to me that Virus would be better termed a collection of good ideas by which to live one's life (is there a term that fits that definitin?)
Either way, i'm simply wanting to hear some people's thoughts on my little rant.
- ub
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David Lucifer
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Enlighten me.
 
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Re:virus == a religion?
« Reply #1 on: 2002-07-20 14:09:46 » |
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[uberbastard] A belief (used in it's standard definition) does not require reason of any kind in order for it to exist in a person's (or societies collective) mind.
[Lucifer] That is true.
[uberbastard] I do not recall the movie i heard this in, but it was railing against the idea of believing in anything, but instead, having a good idea about a particular basic notion. The entire basis of a belief, IMO is blind faith in something, or someone, obviously not requiring a reasonable explanation of any kind, as that would destroy the very point of believing in something.
[Lucifer] That does not fit with the definition you quoted above. I don't see any incompatibility between reason and belief. For example, I have good reason to believe that humans evolved, that WWII happened from 1939-45, that China exists even though I've never been there, etc. etc.
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uberbastard
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Re:virus == a religion?
« Reply #2 on: 2002-07-20 14:42:27 » |
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[uberbastard] I do not recall the movie i heard this in, but it was railing against the idea of believing in anything, but instead, having a good idea about a particular basic notion. The entire basis of a belief, IMO is blind faith in something, or someone, obviously not requiring a reasonable explanation of any kind, as that would destroy the very point of believing in something.
[Lucifer] That does not fit with the definition you quoted above. I don't see any incompatibility between reason and belief. For example, I have good reason to believe that humans evolved, that WWII happened from 1939-45, that China exists even though I've never been there, etc. etc.
[uberbastard] whoops, it appears that i left out part of my argument out. i should really learn to utilize the preview button. 
Addendum:
One of the synonyms for belief is faith, and faith = "a firm belief in something for which there is no proof" (yes, i know, it's sort of a catch-22, but i'm simply attempting to validate my definition of belief). This entire argument is based on my odd (and usually unaccepted) defition of belief, so i'm sure several holes can be shot straight through it (which i readily welcome)
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rhinoceros
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My point is ...
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Re:virus == a religion?
« Reply #3 on: 2002-07-20 17:43:59 » |
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[uberbastard]
One of the synonyms for belief is faith
<snip>
[rhinoceros]
There is a difference.
It is not necessary that a belief be conscious nor certain, and it is not necessary that a belief be rationally founded, but it is possible that it is.
Usually, we say:
"My beliefs..." (plural)
"My faith..." or "I have faith in..." (singular)
"There are many religious faiths" (plural, but only because it refers to different people)
The expression that interests me most is "Have faith!"
We give this advice when some contradictory evidence or some hard or dangerous obstacles make someone doubt or abandon a "cause". Is it right to "have faith"? When should you abandon faith in your beliefs or in a course of action? The easy answer is "Of course, people should abandon their irrational beliefs". In reality, it takes a lot of memetic interaction, and sometimes it is us, the rational people, who change our beliefs (hence the diversity you have probably noticed in CoV).
As an endnote, the saying "Faith moves mountains" has been proved correct again and again (although, not always with desirable results).
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Tywick
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Re:Dogma?
« Reply #6 on: 2002-11-14 00:55:19 » |
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Ding ding ding Phanerothyme wins
Quote from: phanerothyme on 2002-08-19 14:23:37
It was in Dogma, I think. Better to have good ideas than beliefs, as beliefs are harder to change (to paraphrase the 13th apostle, Rufus).
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