Order for free; Intelligentigent design and antrhopic principles
« on: 2007-11-13 20:36:19 »
Today I had a moment of mass media rebellion . . . yes I know that much of the media is simply on a blind memetic program and it usually passes me by without much concern until it gets to these kinds of issues.
I'm posting this in our Philosophy and Religion section because quite frankly I find that the science issues have exceded their original points to the extent that even some philosophically or even culturally skeptical religionists who consider themselves however remotely plugged into Virian transhumanist prgramming ought to begin to feel a severe bit of revulsion to the ideas propagating from dogmatic fundamentalist sources of dissent.
Today I heard a bit too much from Glenn Beck and his guest today Ben Stein. Now frankly compared to others of a neocon stripe I usually considedr Ben Stein a moderating voice against the rationally incomprehensible wave of neocon ideological Koolaid drinkers. But for some reason today, between Glenn Beck and Ben Stein they got themselves into an incredibly unecessary philospohical/scientific/spiritual fuck-up where they decided that any evolutionists were boogeymen who couldn't even provide first causes of life.
I found myself screaming at my girlfriend's television (since I don't have one of my own). I know I can count on many virians like Walter, Hermit, David (Lucifer) and others remaining and temporarily departed to witness, reference and otherwise discuss what many of us have researched or read about either first or second hand on these topics. The fact of the matter is that Stuart Kauffman through his extensive work on "The Origins of Order" and his laymans book "At Home in the Universe" has already demonstrated extensively about the order for free, and even more specifically through the mathematics of autocatalytic sets, how thermodynamically open systems (such as the planet Earth) will inevitably produce more and more complex "order for free" with or without divine guidance. The origial genesis of life, if not intellegent life, has been more than established by the science of thermodynamically open complex systems. Of course Kauffman invokes the divine for rhetorical value and while one may invoke the anthropic principle such a system operates without divine intervention.
Indeed the Catholic chuch itself has embarked on such a universal view of creation by accepting an "intelligent design" theory which acknowleges both an billions of year old universe and common descent, and allows such an "order for free" concept within its theological perspective of "intelligent design". Various ninompoops like Stein seem blissfully ignorant of these grand ideological and even theological shifts of mature scientific understaanding. Somehow I thought he among many other of the otherwise wacko right might recognize the oportunity to change and still hold forth on some of their theological basics, and yet it seems the evolutionsts like Kauffman remain more mentally competant to do so.
We have some limited opportunity for religious and scientific synthesis at a time in history when the usual dogmatic suspects are obviously holding the shorter end of both the cultural and reality stick, and yet for Beck, Stein, and other dogmatists the siren call deafens them to such civilized possibilities. I would hope that we could open a dialogue to counter this.
Just when I thought I was out-they pull me back in
Re:Order for free; Intelligentigent design and antrhopic principles
« Reply #1 on: 2007-11-13 22:01:03 »
Hey long-standing dear friend.
It's frustrating isn't it?
I have to tend to some other things tonight, but I hope to engage (and empathize with) you in more detail in the coming days.
Be well and don't give up the fight.
Walter PS--BTW Mo, if you haven't had a chance to watch this, you should. It's really good. Be patient, as there are two short introductions before Dennett starts.
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