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Topic: The Golden/Silver "Rule" (Read 934 times) |
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Bass
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The Golden/Silver "Rule"
« on: 2006-12-04 18:37:11 » |
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Something coccured to me the other day which arousd an interesting question for me which I had no clear answer for, so I though it may make a good topic.
What does the CoV, in general, think on the Golden rule, or the ethic of reciprocity. Or the Silver rule - This states "treat others in the way that they wish to be treated".
How does the Virtue of empathy fit, in the Virian way, with these two "rules"?
Please feel free to add your own opinions also.
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David Lucifer
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Re:The Golden/Silver "Rule"
« Reply #3 on: 2006-12-07 20:29:15 » |
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Quote from: Salamantis on 2006-12-05 02:32:31
The rule that you should treat others as you would have them treat you falls vixctim to the possibility that you are a masochist; this would mandate sadistic behaviour from you towards others.
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True but that is pretty rare. The golden rule is probably a decent default strategy which explains its popularity.
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The rule that you should treat others as they would desire to be treated falls victim to the possibility that they are sadists; this would mandate your masochistic submission to them.
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Also rare. But worse the silver rule falls victim to cheaters which mandates that you let them get away with cheating. Unfortunately cheaters aren't rare at all.
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I always liked the Wiccan Rede: If it harm none, do as ye will. Lenient on the surface, it becomes apparent upon deper perusal that it is actually a strict discipline, when it is understood that 'harm none' means not only do not harm others, but also do not harm oneself, or harm the planetary home which we in common share.
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I like that the Rede dispenses with all "victimless crimes" but it also seems to prohibit eating which seems problematic. Of course you can define "none" to include and exclude whoever you want, but that is also problematic.
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Hermit
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Re:The Golden/Silver "Rule"
« Reply #4 on: 2006-12-07 23:31:25 » |
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[Lucifer] True but that is pretty rare. The golden rule is probably a decent default strategy which explains its popularity.
[Hermit] Only if you accept the mindset and attitudes of the believers. Which I know you don't.
[Hermit] The Golden Rule not only allows, it encourages bad behavior. For example (and hardly uncommon): "I'm going to throw religious tracts at you/harangue you/torture you/submerge you in religious symbolism/even deliberately pervert the meaning of the language you think you are using, until you accept Jeeeesus as your personal Saviour from free will or as a desperate act of sheer memetic self-protection. When you get to heaven you will thank me for saving you from your own blind stupidity."
[Hermit] Which was, I am fairly certain, Mark Twain's point in the story I appended to the original discourse on this topic.
Kind Regards
Hermit
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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David Lucifer
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Re:The Golden/Silver "Rule"
« Reply #5 on: 2006-12-09 04:36:51 » |
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[Hermit] The Golden Rule not only allows, it encourages bad behavior. For example (and hardly uncommon): "I'm going to throw religious tracts at you/harangue you/torture you/submerge you in religious symbolism/even deliberately pervert the meaning of the language you think you are using, until you accept Jeeeesus as your personal Saviour from free will or as a desperate act of sheer memetic self-protection. When you get to heaven you will thank me for saving you from your own blind stupidity."
[Lucifer] I doubt there are many people of faith that would like to be on the receiving end of that kind of treament from someone of a different religion. If they apply the golden rule they shouldn't do that to others.
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Hermit
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Re:The Golden/Silver "Rule"
« Reply #6 on: 2006-12-09 10:04:31 » |
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[Hermit 4] The Golden Rule not only allows, it encourages bad behavior. For example (and hardly uncommon): "I'm going to throw religious tracts at you/harangue you/torture you/submerge you in religious symbolism/even deliberately pervert the meaning of the language you think you are using, until you accept Jeeeesus as your personal Saviour from free will or as a desperate act of sheer memetic self-protection. When you get to heaven you will thank me for saving you from your own blind stupidity."
[Lucifer 5] I doubt there are many people of faith that would like to be on the receiving end of that kind of treament from someone of a different religion. If they apply the golden rule they shouldn't do that to others.
[Hermit 6] The trouble with this reasoning is that you are wanting the shifty-eyed beeleever to use your priorities, but for the true beeleever, at least for the True Beeleever of proselytizing religions, the priority is "I want to get to heaven." For the beeleever, "I don't want to be bothered" is at a much lower level of importance, and in fact, from his perspective he is perfectly correct in this. Happiness for the brief time we spend on Earth is not significant in the face of being cast into hell for eternal punishment or whatever other nastiness awaits the infidel. Most conventional religions incorporate an implicit trade-off encouraging their adherents not only to suffer but to rejoice in suffering for the opportunity for spiritual advancement. Hallelujah! Praise the lard.
[Hermit 6] Your suffering, is, like his, for your own good.
Kind Regards
Hermit
PS Is it possible (and cheap (as in easy)) to make the reply number appear in the reply mode? It would make it easier to use the proposed reply based numbering (as I have here) by allowing cross-referencing without having to open a second copy to reference.
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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David Lucifer
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Re:The Golden/Silver "Rule"
« Reply #7 on: 2006-12-09 20:29:47 » |
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[Hermit 6] Your suffering, is, like his, for your own good.
[Lucifer] Sure but I was talking about how people of faith actually feel and how the golden rule would apply. The fact that proselytizers hypocritically don't apply the golden rule doesn't change my argument.
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Hermit
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Re:The Golden/Silver "Rule"
« Reply #8 on: 2006-12-09 23:35:46 » |
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[Hermit 6] Your suffering, is, like his, for your own good.
[Lucifer 7] Sure but I was talking about how people of faith actually feel and how the golden rule would apply. The fact that proselytizers hypocritically don't apply the golden rule doesn't change my argument.
[Hermit 8]I really hate to have to say this, but I think that for the True Beeleever that their loathsome actions are driven not so much by hypocrisy, no matter how much it might appear so to an external observer, but rather to a very strong delusional state*.
[Hermit 8]What I must have failed to convey is that my observation is that the "True Beeleever's" priorities are such that they personally think that they would want to be "saved" and go to heaven before anything else. As such, my opinion is that they are so convinced of the importance of this, of their righteousness, of their ability to withstand criticism and capacity to resist persuasion that dealing with other faiths is seen merely as another opportunity for them to "witness" to the unsaved. That also means that if gentler witnessing fails, that they will torture you, even kill you, no matter how much it pains them to have to do so, that you may achieve what they most desire for themselves. A ticket to heaven.
Kind Regards
Hermit
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg, 1999
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