From: Jonathan Davis (jonathan.davis@lineone.net)
Date: Wed May 19 2004 - 18:07:52 MDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Mermaid
Sent: 19 May 2004 09:38
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Re:Banality of Evil and Digital Photography
SNIP
[JD] Most of those soldiers are happy to be fighting for their country and
they are happy to enjoy the benefits that service brings them.
[Mermaid]We have a virian fighting for his country. Do you think he'd know
better than you whether or not 'most soldiers' are HAPPY to be fighting for
their countries? Mercenaries enjoy benefits. American soldiers get flag
waving, non combatant citizens supporting them and pretty much..nothing
else...the benefit goes to bush, cheney and cronies...you bet they are happy
to enjoy the benefits of the service that soldiers bring to them by putting
their ass on line for a few good men...
on a totally diff note..whats with the gas prices in UK? Blair dragged you
guys to the war and no benefit...
Have you ever donned a military uniform? You seem so well informed...:)
[JD 3] Our fighting Virian can comment on his sample. Has he? What was his
assessment? Do you assert that soldiers are unhappy to fight for their
countries and no benefits from their service? Both my own experiences and
the books/comments I have read contradict this. Even the Klein article we
are discussing makes the point many soldiers join up for career and social
advancement, and I would add, as well as the pride of patriotic service.
[JD]I also think that military service is an excellent absorber of the
economically adrift sections of society.
[Mermaid]Basically, you are saying that its a great idea to send the poor of
a country to fight in wars to bring in riches for the already rich of the
country?
[JD 3] I think it is good to be able to apply manpower where it is needed.
This is what the British did very successfully and their efforts laid the
foundations of contemporary civilisation across half the world.
Your implied premise about why wars - especially recent wars - are fought,
is rejected.
[Jonathan Davis 1]
Need she be imprisoned and heavily punished? I do not think that would be
just. Catch the people who might have murdered prisoners. Catch the people
who might have tortured them.
[Mermaid]Is this the same guy who mentioned in his journal that rowdy
teenage, south london school girls who traveled ticketless(and were
threatened by policeman who wielded batons at them) should be caught and
punished severely??? I am speechless!
[Jonathan 3] Yes, you loyal reader you, I say your comment :-) You know I
actually said that "I sincerely hope those girls are caught and punished",
not "severely punished" as you have claimed. Like so may out-of-context
quotes, this one appears bizarre. Virians can read the post in question here
(even though it is irrelevant to this discussion).
http://www.limbicnutrition.com/blog/archives/021283.html
You might note Mermaid that you have been rebuked by a young black girl for
using the racially insensitive and outdated phrase "coloured". Tut tut. :-)
[Jonathan Davis 1]
I think we ought to stop the hypocritical finger pointing at these
miscreants and face up the messy task of fighting enemies that not only do
not share our values or restraint but actively use them against us.
[Mermaid]Why? How did Iraq use anything against Britain or America? What is
wrong with not sharing American values and Blair's puppylove for Dubya?
[Jonathan 3] Why what? Google "Iraq Saddam Hussein torture mass.graves"
[Jonathan 2] In the case of Islamists, it is they who have selected us -
you and I - as the enemy. You can consider them to be whatever you chose.
This is the problem with aggression. You do not get to chose to fight or
not. You fight or die.
[Mermaid]Just for a minute, even if you are right..(which you
arent)...picking a fight and declaring that its a 'fight or die'
sceanario...where does humiliation, torture and abuse enter the picture?
killing your enemy is survival...torturing them and especially in the most
obscene manner to drain every bit of human dignity from them...to make them
'non people' is....what?? ..what would you call that...the nazis did that to
another semitic people some years ago...remember that?
[JD 3] We are at war. Some tiny number of soldiers abused their power. They
were exposed and are being punished. The system works. Alternatives?
[JD]... or protesting about the abuse of Iraqi prisoners whilst supporting
the murderers of Nick Berg and other civilians.
[Mermaid]As we have seen in another thread, this is highly debatable..
[JD 3] That most Arabs support Jihadis?
[Jonathan Davis 1]An enemy whose Commander in Chief personally apologises
for the wrongdoings of a tiny number of renegade soldiers sets the upper
standard.
[Mermaid]Bush didnt apologise. Can you give me a quote or transcript of this
alleged apology?
Here ya go: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119156,00.html
Next apology I expect is your to me for your excess doubt :-)
[Jonathan 2] Yes, I meant what I wrote at several levels. What I said was
"Lynndie England is in many ways exemplary". What that meant was that she
was "born to extreme poverty, she worked and planned her way out of [that]
poverty.
[Mermaid]At the risk of repeating myself..but for clarification
purposes..what has that got to do with ANYTHING?
[JD 3] My discussion with Rhinoceros about a Klein article that discusses
the soldiers economic backgrounds.
[Jonathan 2] The enemy in Iraq is mostly comprised of Syrian and Iranian
agitators, Al Qaeda operatives, Baathist remnants, Tribal Mafia, Shiite
power grabbers and a smattering of psychopathic Islamists drawn to a fight.
[Mermaid]You must be well connected to have all these 'facts' at your
fingertips.
[JD 3] You better believe it :-)
Kind regards
Jonathan
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