RE: RE virus: More bush democracy

From: Jonathan Davis (jonathan.davis@lineone.net)
Date: Thu Mar 04 2004 - 16:58:56 MST

  • Next message: Dr Sebby: "Re: RE virus: More bush democracy"

    Hi K,

    I are to with you on both the objections you raised. I am also against
    sanctions, but their use by the US against Cuba is understandable. I
    personally think the sanctions should be lifted.

    You are right about the trade issues, but my point about the trade disputes
    was not to really debate who is right or wrong, but to point out that
    self-interest drives much of the behaviour of these blocs and they all at
    various times have flouted the rules and conventions.

    Regards

    Limbic

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
    Kharin
    Sent: 04 March 2004 23:03
    To: virus@lucifer.com
    Subject: Re:RE virus: More bush democracy

    Blunderov wrote:

    "Someone, it may have been Churchill, once remarked that 'War is foreign
    policy by other means'."

    I believe you are probably thinking of Carl Von Clausewitz:

    "War is not merely a political act, but also a real political instrument, a
    continuation of political commerce, a carrying out of the same by other
    means. ... for the political view is the object, War is the means, and the
    means must always include the object in our conception"

    See: http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/04spring/fleming.htm

    Limbic wrote:

    "The United States has sanctions against Cuba (a communist dictatorship and
    long time enemy) and participated in UN sanctions against Saddam's Iraq.
    Occasionally it gets into tangles with other trade blocks like the
    protectionist EU, that is destroying Caribbean fruit farmers (amongst
    others) and the US is trying to help. "

    Hmm. For the most part, I am inclined to think that sanctions are rarely
    effective and rarely humane. They have a nasty habit of penalising the
    populace and leaving the elites unaffected. Unless the populace are able to
    put pressure on elites, sanctions afford no reliable mechanism for regime
    change (the only exception I can think of is Libya). In the case of Cuba, I
    think there is a very good case to be made for the sanctions having
    preserved the Castro regime.

    Regarding the allegedly protectionist EU, I have noted a sequence of defeats
    for the US at the WTO against complaints from many trade blocs, the EU
    amongst them. I hardly think the US a bastion of free trade.

    ----
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