From: Jonathan Davis (jonathan.davis@lineone.net)
Date: Thu Mar 04 2004 - 04:40:03 MST
I think foreign policy of virtually every state is rightly about
self-interest (yes, even Sweden and Switzerland).
I was thinking today that it is slightly hypocritical of some people to have
argued against the invasion of Iraq on pragmatic grounds (i.e. "It will stir
up terrorists", "It is best to leave the Saddam there at least he hates and
suppresses Al Qaeda" etc) often denounce former examples of pragmatic
foreign policies as bad because they have created problems for us now
(arming Saddam, arming Islamists in Afghanistan).
The United States has sanctions against Cuba (a communist dictatorship and
long time enemy) and participated in UN sanctions against Saddam's Iraq.
Occasionally it gets into tangles with other trade blocks like the
protectionist EU, that is destroying Caribbean fruit farmers (amongst
others) and the US is trying to help.
I am curious about which countries you assess as having been ruined by the
United States? The US has single handily driven the world economy to greater
strength than ever before (that is why economists are so worried about the
slow down in "US led growth").
I also have to disagree with your assessment of the United States as a
"quasi-democracy". Compared to comparatively tiny and strongly homogenous
states like Switzerland, it appears to be wanting. But against a world
benchmark, it is by far the most free, democratic and least corrupt of the
super-250 million population states / political unions (Russia, India,
Brazil, EU etc).
Here in the UK the only thing you really cannot say is anything bad about
minority ethnic groups or other protected minorities (e.g. gays). There are
laws against hate speech that proscribe this. Otherwise one is pretty much
free to say whatever one likes.
In the USA you have even stronger protections for free speech written into
the very constitution of the nation. The mass media may be controlled by
business interests, but that is not the same as not having a free press. It
is useful to ask people of the former Soviet Bloc what real censorship and
suppression are. Or better still, ask some Miami Cubans about the paradise
of free Cuba and its free press and free elections.
Regards
Limbic
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Erik Aronesty
Sent: 03 March 2004 19:51
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: RE virus: More bush democracy
Exactly, we have a habit of propping up dictators - like Saddam or Khomeini.
Our foreign policy reflects our wallets, not our ideals.We sanction and
economicly ruin countries that elect leaders that disagree with us
economically - regardless of how they came into power.
Sweden, Switzerland and Costa Rica seem to be strong on democracy and press
freedom.
Our "quasi democratic republic" ranks poorly when it comes to censorship and
civil rights.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jonathan Davis" <jonathan.davis@lineone.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:17:38
To:<virus@lucifer.com>
Subject: RE: RE virus: More bush democracy
"Real democracies" like pre-War Iraq or Afghanistan, contemporary Iran,
North Korea and Libya?
I prefer these false democracy police states like the UK and the USA.
Regards
Limbic
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Erik Aronesty
Sent: 03 March 2004 14:16
To: virus@lucifer.com
Cc: 'Judith Jurgens'
Subject: Re: RE virus: More bush democracy
It sounds very consistent with our foreign policy of "zero tolerance for
real democracy"
Then again, that's our new domestic policy as well.
--- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Mar 04 2004 - 04:42:57 MST