@@ -35,4 +35,54 @@ Comedy (like http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/ - similar to creationist science, but deliberate comedy from the BBC)
Flash animations and other digital artworks
Related: http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=54;action=display;threadid=27797
+
+[Limbic] Given that one of the aims of the CoV is to foster a memetic religion to
+replace the current set, how can we compete without creating true believers
+and virulent irrational memes that rely on rhetoric or deceitful propaganda
+for propagation?
+
+I am wondering this after a series of depressing encounters with bigots and
+fanatics where they carried the crowd despite denying reality. Rhetoric
+trumps the truth. Furthermore it is hard to be truthful using rhetoric and
+near impossible to convince even a neutral audience when you are against
+someone who is but you do not.
+
+Most terrifyingly, the zeal and anger of these people is taken as evidence
+of the truth of their claims, and their good faith. I was cast as a
+calculating villain using clever words and mind games to deceive and deny.
+
+What chance do we stand against such people? Are thee short sharp shock type
+curatives for virulent chauvinism or fanaticism? Would a pro-CoV fanatic be
+a good thing or a bad thing?
+
+Regards
+
+Jonathan
+http://www.limbicnutrition.com/blog/
+
+P.S. Just in from the Philosophers Magazine quote of the day service:
+
+"Look at what Christ said about sin. The sins of the flesh. He said that a
+man who had looked after a woman lustfully had sinned as much as the man who
+had seduced her. How absurd! If a man in good health does not experience
+some kind of sexual reaction when he sees an attractive woman, there is
+something wrong with him. Paul said some wicked things, but Christ started
+it."
+
+Bertrand Russell
+ --An Interview with Kenneth Harris
+
+[Jake] I would hope that a pro-CoV "fanatic" would seem more tolerable than the Xian ones. After all we consider dogmatism one of our senseless sins, and I think that represents a lot of the attitude problems we encounter with Xian fanatics. Nonetheless anyone that gets into memetic conflict runs the risk of taking on characteristics of their opponents, and so that alone should serve as some warning to take frequent reality checks.
+
+Secondly, I don't think we should try to convert everyone. I think we have developed a more practical attitude that we know CoV is not for everyone. Indeed such a PoV may give us some memetic advantages in taking a somewhat "elitist" view of ourselves. If you have made it this far and embraced the memes of the CoV, you probably ARE a generally smarter person who does appreciate intelligent rational discussion at least somewhat preferentially to emotionally wrought rhetoric. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back!
+
+But remember this in dealing with other non-CoVers: we should try to maintain empathy even in dealing with people that we know will probably never embrace CoV. This elite feeling should not excuse you from addressing the arguments of the blind or the blinded. If you feel yourself pulling a haughty attitude with them, a little self-deprecation may be line for your memetic toolbox. Even if you know that a person may even be lost to the blindness, I bet you can still "upload" some more reasonable and rational CoV-friendly memes into their brains just by metaphorically flying under their radar. Remember that we are after minds and not bodies, and people can be of "several minds" on an issue even when they display only one. Another advantage we have is that generally we are better at going "off script" than the fundy Xians. As long as they are following their memetic program, they are VERY effective. Possibly more so than your average Virian. But the side effect of that is that if you can pull them off of their program they are generally very lost, whereas I have found that most Virians on the other hand usually enjoy these types of situations. When this happens, this is NOT the opportunity to make them feel like a dumbass as many other vindictive-type atheists may feel tempted to do. The first thing to do is to provide them with some empathy . . . like you or any other animal they need rewards for good behavior. After you have rewarded them a bit, then you can think of your next dialogue changes as you will finally have more of the memetic upper hand.
+
+I think another thing to remember is that in one to one dialogue you probably have the advantage. But facing down a crowd is more difficult. They may "defeat" you through sheer energy alone, though I certainly would recommend being a good sport and refusing to shutdown regardless. With a little reason, and a little empathy, and a little vision, today's defeat can pave the way for tomorrow's victory.
+
+Another thing to remember. Even if you can get a little disoriented, I bet you can always ask a question. Even if you don't know where it leads, it will probably at least lead to another question. One thing that can truly take someone off program is the question that they didn't expect. If you search long enough with enough empathy and vision, I bet you can find that question.
+
+Love,
+
+-Shadow 03.02.10 20:44 CST
