On 8 Aug 2002 at 18:44, Hermit wrote:
>
> Summary from the below sources unless otherwise referenced:
>
> 44 extrajudicial deaths due to suspicion of "collaboration"
> 13 executions due to "collaboration" (as previously noted all of these
> executions have been related directly to murders committed by the IDF
> where the accused has been an accessory before and, or, after the fact
> and thus challenge this assignation. However, I have still included
> this figure below).
>
> Against this we have (using only the same sources) a total of 1'207
> confirmed Palestinian deaths in the same period.
>
> This yields 57 "collaborator" deaths or 4.72% vs 1150 other deaths or
> 95.28%. A far cry from 50% indeed. Now pretending for a moment that we
> were not discussing the current intifada - which we undoubtedly were
> [Refer "Re: virus: The face of genocide - While the world watches"
> (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;thread
> id=25976) ], and scrambled the statistics together taking the 822
> "collaborators" from the first Intifada as well as the 2'329
> Palestinian deaths at the hands of Israeli security forces and
> civilians prior to the current Intifada [ Source: The Israeli Center
> for Human Rights (B'Tselem): Statistics: "Persons killed before and
> after signing of the Declaration of Principles, 13 September 1993"
> (http://www.btselem.org/) ], and incorporate it with the above, it
> still yields an average of "collaborator" deaths of about 25%. Still a
> far cry from the 50% you cited.
>
> As I have said from the begining of this thread (and numerous others),
> you appear to be voicing opinion as fact and demanding that we
> acknowledge it as such. In the past you would not have done this, nor
> would you have so catastrophically misread and misinterpreted your
> sources. Examine yourself and tell me if I am wrong.
>
> Regards
>
> Hermit
> [hr]
>
Yep, you're wrong. Most of what you have posted here, like is to be
expected of the overwhelming predominance ot sources slanted in the
direction of Palestinian advocacy, either turns a blind eye to the
problem and ignores the collaborator deaths entirely for their particular
reports, or perhaps assigns other causes or circumstances to them (for
instance that they were murderers or drug dealers, or were killed by IDF
or undercover Israeli forces or collaborators), causes and
circumstances which may or may not be be true. The few cases they
actually do mention, they mention in a purely anecdotal fashion, as if it
were in fact existent but rare, but such is clearly indeed not the case.
The extremely thorough 209-page report that Rhinocerous referenced,
written by a Palestinian and an Israeli Jew, seems authoritative
covering the period which it covers, which is up until seven years ago.
If anything, in the present intifadeh, when it is compared to the first one,
the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror organizations have been MORE
independent of of the control of either Arafat or the forces (Fatah, the
PLA, the Palestinian police and security) nominally under his command,
not less, as also are, increasingly, both the Tanzim and the Al Aqsa
Martyrs' Brigade, and thus most likely have killed, and will continue to
kill, collaborators at even a greater rather than lesser rate than they did
in the previous intifadeh.
>
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