[Nurgle]Attempting to repress instinct is an amusing thing to try.
[Mermaid]I agree. It is hilarious. I am sure some dirty old man has the
instinct to adopt the Olsen twins.
[Nurgle]People (especially teenagers) are naturally curious, and by hiding
all exposure to sexual activities will never work, especially when all those
hormones are at work.
[Mermaid]Curiosity can be a good thing and exposure can be too. I never
suggested exposure to sexual activities. You just dont want a curious 14
year old playing a game without knowing the rules. You especially dont want
unsavoury characters manipulating their curiosity.
[Mermaid]Having said that, I suspect(I dont know many young people here and
I am basing this on what I observe in the United States from its media
channels, literature etc)there is more peer pressure amongst children/teens
than genuine curiosity.
[Mermaid]I'm with Herm on this, good sex. ed. is the best way. My parents
tried their hardest to limit my exposure to sex, and Mermaid, you know how
horny I am. Maybe if they were a lil' more open about it, I would have
turned out differently :)
[Mermaid]I have never contested the fact that sex.ed is a good measure.
Knowledge is power. Pretty much.
[Nurgle](Also, the definition of a child varies from country to country, so
which definition do you use? Hell, even in the US, the definiton varies from
state to state, as demonstrated in an earlier post by Herm on ages of
consent).
[Mermaid]13-18 = teen. 8-12 = pre-teen. younger than 8=child. IMO: I would
definitely put the pre-teen category as work-in-progress as far as sexual
maturity goes. 13-15 are definitely ready for sex, but should refrain from
sexual activity. Especially, if they think condoms are smelly water
balloons. Anyone who understands sex and is under no pressure is emotionally
stable for "sin". Anyone who understands that the first bun in the oven
neednt be placed in the shrine is ready. Anyone who understands the need for
safe sex and is familiar with safe sex procedures is ready for sex. All
these are sadly lacking amongst most of our children. The ones who loudly
cry out for the sexual freedom of children do not take the same interest in
the welfare of these youngsters. Being the cynic that I am, I see it all as
the wolf being too concerned about the sheep.
[Nurgle]You know what they say about Catholic Girls....
[Mermaid]Damn! They are hot, horny and ready to go!! I'll take one with
fries, please.
[Nurgle]I think there is a cultural aspect here.
[Mermaid]And you would be right.
[Nurgle]Maybe someone could post some statistics about STD infections of
different age groups from different countries. Do countries which are more
open about sex have lower or higher STD infection rates?
[Mermaid]Isnt 16 the legal age for street walkers in the UK?(Lets not even
consider age of consent)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020722/hl_nm/aids_children_dc_1
"More than 7,500 young people in Britain are infected with HIV/AIDS. The
majority of cases in children are through mother-to-child transmission but
young people aged 15-19 years are most at risk of acquiring the virus
through unsafe sex or intravenous drug use."
[Mermaid]Apparently, even adults are not educated in matters of sexual
health. Who is allowing HIV patients to have children?? and why is this
happening? These are good questions.
"British children are warned of the dangers of drugs, alcohol and smoking
but few know about the risks of sexually transmitted diseases and HIV ( news
- web sites)/AIDS ( news - web sites), according to a poll published on
Monday."
"HIV/AIDS has killed 24 million people worldwide and infected 40 million
others but British parents are uncomfortable talking about the global
epidemic with their children."
[Mermaid]Abstinence, like any good or bad advice, will be duly ignored if
enforced by coercion. *I* see abstinence as a good idea for children and
teenagers because a demand for the full disclosure of a partner's sexual
history at that age would be ridiculous. This, combined with mothers happily
breeding inferior spawn without considering the implications of passing on a
STD, paedophilia, incest and frequent changes in sexual partners from a very
early age amongst american teenagers all contribute to teen sex being one of
the most dangerous games. I am aware that children/teenagers will not
usually accept an adult position on any issue or even their advice. How that
is tackled is a whole differnt ball game. From my point of view, given that
the mess it is, abstinence actually makes sense in the United States. Not to
be preached from a position of moral authority but from the hope that our
children will grow up. In more ways than one. There is no point to awarding
freedom without the knowledge about how to *use* that precious freedom.
[Nurgle]I have no idea where to find these stats, or what they are, but I'd
expect to find that countries which expose people to sexual education at
younger ages will have lower rates of STD infections, while conservative
states will have much higher STD rates, as well as higher teen pregnancy
rates. Of course, this hypothesis doesn't include states that have limited
access to contraceptives (both barrier and oral).
[Mermaid]I can look, but that will have to wait. As far as I saw from the
one quick search(www.populationaction.org), Netherlands is doing very well
wrt sex education. HIV infection, teen pregnancy and incidence of STDs are
very low. The Dutch are not shy about sex. Americans lag far far behind the
Dutch because of the lack of proper sex education.
[Mermaid]Now you heard that. Put that aside. Lets explore the aspect of
'culture'. Take Iran. The legal age in Iran is 9 years. They have very
strict rules of morality and modesty and severe punishment for pre marital
and extra marital sex. Translated, they are tight-arsed about sex. Now look
at
http://www.populationaction.org/news/press/news_042302_Youth.htm#statistics
Births to women ages 15-19 (as percent of all births)in the US= 12.4%
Births to women ages 15-19 (as percent of all births)in Iran = 9%
Percent of 15-19 year-olds ever married (male/female): USA = 1% and 4 %
Percent of 15-19 year-olds ever married (male/female): Iran= 5% and 26%
Young women (15-19) using any method of contraception: USA = 29.8%
Young women (15-19) using any method of contraception: Iran= 34%
Of course, these are only statistics. Population numbers matter. Cultural
differences matter. But all that contributes to the end result of a
country's general well being and the sexual health of its youth. Sometimes,
comparison just doesnt cut it. Every culture and every country has its own
dynamics.
[Mermaid]There is absolutely no point to fighting for teenager's sexual
needs without educating them first. Infact, it is incredibly irresponsible
to do so.
[Mermaid]In the United States, getting laid is more important than having
sex. Another common misconception amongst her citizens is the confusion
between love and sex. They call having sex, making love. I suspect this lie
is quite popular all over the world. Then there is sex which is often power
play. Then there is sex which is a commodity. Then there is sex as a game
and sexual partners as trophies. As long as physical needs are fused with
emotional entanglements, there can never be a true understanding of sex and
its pleasures and its dangers. So until the damage that has already been
created over years of strait jacketed morality is eradicted by education,
abstinence is something that this generation has to endure for the wellbeing
of the coming generations. Boy! am I glad that I am an old fart..:)
<snip>
"There is a misconception that sexual and reproductive health education will
encourage sexual behavior and lead to higher rates of abortion, unintended
pregnancy and STIs among youth," says Ms. Coen. "The Dutch experience proves
that talking openly about sexuality and making services available to young
people does just the opposite: it benefits their reproductive health."
A discussion of the reproductive health and educational needs of half of the
world's population is not likely to occur at the upcoming United Nations
Special Session on Children, where reproductive rights and sexuality remain
the most contentious issues on the agenda.
"Concepts of morality and tradition and the taboos associated with sexuality
prevent the kind of healthy exchange of information and open communication
that young people desperately need to educate themselves," says Dr. Greene.
"It is unfortunate that some in the international community are bound by the
same taboos, as it is young people who pay the price."
</snip>
P.S.Jonathan Davis, Yea?
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