On 25 Jul 2002 at 14:41, Hermit wrote:
> 
> A definitional issue from a consensus scientific (rather than a 
philosophical) perspective.
> 
> universe - all possible things real and imaginary - including our Universe 
and other potential or actual universii.
> 
> Universe - our universe. Everything which exists within our spacetime. 
Ours is not necessarily the only Universe, but is the only Universe 
which 
we experience. Our Universe is bounded by spacetime, which is in turn 
dependent on the existence of matter-energy to define a reference 
frame. 
Areas not having spacetime are not "outside the Universe" 
(meaningless 
for lack of a reference frame) but are simply undefined. However, they 
are 
part of the universe (supra). Spacetime was instantiated some Planck-
seconds after the quantum fluctuation, but it is incorrect to refer to 
"before 
the Universe existed" as that is again, simply undefined as there was no 
spacetime and thus no time (needed to make before meaningful) .
> 
> Other universii may exist (highly probable according to current quantum 
and string theory, as well as most of the consensus cosmological 
models) 
but need not resemble ours in any way whatever, and may be forever 
inaccessible to us except in thought experiments. Ask me when we 
determine whether Hawking Radiation exists (it should) and whether 
Hawking Radiation conveys information (probably)).
> 
That would be other Universii; following your caps-or-not distinction, 
there could be only one little-u universe.
>
> It seems to me, that attempting to define the "relative" aspects of our 
Universe away, as attempted by Joe, fail under the definitional regime 
above.
> 
It seems to me that "forever inaccessible to us except in thought         
experiments" entails nonrelationality.  In such a case, lacking the  
possibility of either empirical proof or disproof, such conjectures must  
remain outside Popperian Falsifiability, and thus consigned to the realm 
of belief, rather than that of knowledge.
>
> Regards
> 
> Hermit
> 
> 
> ----
> This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS.
> <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=25787>
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