Onikan:
>Interesting. I couldn't read it all. I have to commend you that I could
>never write a post that long. I could write an theses[sic] that long or
longer,
>but... you spent a lot of time on that post. Neat.
Hermit dwarfs my longest diatribes. He is dearly missed. I am a diplomat
most of the time and have treated you with 'kid' gloves, but he would have
roasted you long ago. And you certainly would have learned something
beneficial, if you had read it all.
>You learn about American government from the media while I learn from a Dr.
>of Political Science who has spent the last 30-40 years carefully examining
>the American government. Not only did the Professor write two books on the
>subject, but he's an incredibly down-to-earth guy.
Oh really? How do you know these things? Prove them.
Let me tell you a few facts about _me_.
I never watch television. Ever. I can't be around the TV when it's on,
with the sole exception of The Simpsons and PBS, and sometimes the Three
Angels Broadcasting Network evangelical program, because it is hilarious.
But that's once every few months. I don't listen to the radio either,
except http://www.radio1.cz , an underground music station. I don't read
popular magazines or newspapers. I get most of my info from the Internet--
articles, web sites, books, and often from this list, along with personal
accounts from members or useful links. When I am curious about an issue, I
seek about people who are natives from that country, because there are many
activists and organizations on my campus, and also work with many
foreigners, and have also lived with many, not to mention all my friends.
I seek out Muslims, Europeans, Israelis, Indians, Chinese, Japanese,
Jewish, Christian, African, and so forth, and I talk honestly with them and
ask many questions. Then I absorb all they say and decide for myself, with
all that different input, exactly what I want to believe. I've been taking
college classes since I was about sixteen, and naturally some of them have
been in Political Science, some American, some Asian, but mostly focusing
on Europe. I also had a wonderful Poli Sci professor, from England, named
Keith Crawford, who is quite successful and has written books and such...
he taught comparative Poli Sci at Charles University in Prague and is
quite... "eccentric", and would bring in his friends as guests, like former
political dissidents who were hunted and persecuted by the Czech Communist
regime, and they would talk to our group. Myself, I have spoken
extensively to many elderly people in Eastern Europe who either suffered
under Hitler and the Nazis, and/or endured the forty years of forced
Communism, then the awkward transition to a Western style economic system
that thrives only on tourism (and is also ripe with corruption.) Many also
survived or had relatives who perished in concentration camps. So spare
your breath and do not lecture me about history and the evils or socialism
or the grandeur of capitalism.
There are many snot-nosed freshman brats like yourself who think they know
it all because they've read a few textbooks and taken a few exams. Hey,
kid, this isn't an email list devoted to drinking Pepsi or listening to
Britney Spears-- have you not noticed? There are scientists, lawyers,
doctors, astronomers, mathematicians, politicians, teachers, hippies,
slackers, musicians, artists, freaks, conservatives, carpenters, Satanists,
skeptics, computer programmers, drifters, anarchists, engineers, waiters,
students, etc, etc, and they often overlap. One of the reasons this list
is great is the great amount of diversity-- not only in geography but in
fields and interests. You are not talking to a bunch of ignorant hicks
here-- you are dismissing people who are older, smarter, wiser, and far
more experienced than you. Do you really believe no one else on this list
has had the same academic background; I'm sure some here ARE Poli Sci
professor who have written numerous books.
When I first joined the list (my freshman year actually, having discovered
it as a senior in high school), although I might have written my share of
flames, I also made an attempt to befriend the regulars, not spit in their
face like you. Grow up. Eventually, after you get over the wonder of
college courses, stop burning incense and sacrificing lambs at the altar of
your professor, stop kissing his feet and robes and fetching his pipe, get
off your knees, eschew that self-righteous and reverential attitude of
yours, you'll be able to think for yourself and have a real debate about
politics and social issues. Of course, by that time, no one on this list
will actually converse with you because you have behaved like such an ass
in public.
Just to clear up another misconception: you know shit, mmkay?
I am aware that you have spoken ill of me on the #virus IRC channel.
Apparently you think that just because you have seen all of two photos of
me and chatted a bit, you can judge me as "a goth who knows nothing about
politics". Well, sweetie pie, first of all, I am not a Goth, and even if I
was, what does that have to do with academic knowledge? Having tattoos,
piercings, and colored hair does not make you a "Goth"-- many people do and
it is now mainstream. It is not a form of rebellion, it is about fashion,
about how to express oneself with physical decoration. It can be about
creativity and individuality, and not worn as an identity to be picked off
a shelf and consumed. "Punk" is also more of a fashion than an ideology
these days. It is also a neat genre of music from the late 70's and early
80's. I am not a simple person, and there are no labels to easily define
me, so don't waste your time. You're obviously a shallow little fucker
too, as you told me "Get breast implants". Oh, haha.
You know, I can sympathize with your situation and plight. I know that
when you are young and your peers are retarded pop culture vultures, it is
difficult, and life can suck because they make it hard. It is also tough
to start college early and try to grow up quickly and adjust. This is
especially hard for geeky type boys, because not only do they naturally
mature much later than females, but their adolescent years they are
ostracized and unpopular so they do not get a lot of practice with normal
social rituals like dating and courtship. They are left out so they throw
themselves into school, homework, computers, and RPG games. As a result
these disaffected and horny youngsters will often substitute
flesh-and-blood company for a computer once they move onto college.
Although they are finally surrounded by available women, they are at a loss
as to what to do. Women are not machines so they cannot be figured out and
fixed; they require skill and grace in the ways of communication and
romance. So these geeks get good grades but are confused by the opposite
sex and lack proper social skills. As a result of this, they become bitter
and disillusioned, and finally desperate.
Here is a wake-up call.
I've probably already had more women in the sack then you ever will in your
adult life. I am infinitely cooler, more informed, sociable, worldly,
sophisticated, and downright more attractive than you can ever hope to be.
Put that on your mummy's teat and suck it.
So on to the rest of your many ravings...
>I remember him mentioning that he was as much anti-Government,
>anti-American, and punkish as you are in the World War II days. Except for
>one minor detail: He didn't run from his problem or give a bunch of excuses
>on why the world sucks, life sucks, American Government sucks... he joined
>the war on his own accord and drove tanks around in Europe fighting for the
>American Cause.
How the hell am I running away from anything? Although I prefer living in
Prague above anywhere else, it is for personal reasons, so for the time
being I am stuck in Wisconsin.
And as others have pointed out, which I'm sure you won't bother to notice,
the Americans were not fighting for some idealistic Freedom-- they were
covering their own asses where it concerned them. They didn't give a shit
about all the suffering until they had to. It's the same in the present
day-- American pretends to care when two or more cultures are out there
annihilating each other in a foreign land-- when the time is suitable and
not before. When terrorism happens abroad, it is a piece of news, a
statistic. When it happens in the USA it is a big fucking overblown
"tragedy". What happened in NYC is of course unfortunate, but not really a
surprise.
>Your punk ideologies are virulent in a negative sense. I am incredibly
>biased against punks, gays, lesbians, etc. but I don't hate them. I disagree
>with their practices but I don't hate them.
Oh, here's a surprise. (smirk) You are prejudiced against homosexuals and
"punks" because you don't know or understand because they are different
from you, but you don't "hate" them. How incredibly noble of you. "Punk"
defies a definition and homosexuality is just an orientation. And how
exactly does one "disagree" with a natural expression of love, lust, or
personal preference? Well, I disagree with heterosexuality. And like many
people have told me (ie. "I don't believe in bisexuality") before, I don't
believe you for a second. You don't exist. I disagree with your alleged
straightness.
What you really need to do to get over your ignorance of sexuality is to
experience it. The next time your
jockish-but-alluring-in-an-altar-boy-kind-of-way dorm roommate comes home
intoxicated from a frat party, and he strips down to his sweat-soaked
tighty whitey underpants, which offer a great outline of his firm, athletic
little bum in the pale moonlight, casually make your way to his bed and
offer him oral sex. Mostly likely he will relent and accept your proposal,
hell, he might even return the favor. You may even enjoy it. Just don't
tell your Skinhead buddies. You see, most closet-case homosexuals and
bi-curious men are usually the most vociferous homophobes. Your Neo-Nazi
playmates would see your newfound sexual liberation as a threat to their
fragile contrived masculinity. Then they would jump you and put you in the
hospital. In my experience, 'straight' men are the one who are not afraid
of kissing other boys, and are not threatened by their existence. They
just prefer to sleep with women. (And can you really blame them? Their
skin is so soft and they smell so nice...)
>Punk ideologies (i.e. anarchic
>ideologies) are a healthy part of American Government.
If you *must* force a definition, punk is certainly better described as
"non-conformist" than "anarchism". For the record.
>I also find it quite interesting the individual groups in our nation express
>their hatred for certain "Americanisms." For example, the skinheads would
>like it if slavery wasn't abolished in the United States, but the punks are
>shouting, "Freedom for everyone!"
I couldn't agree more. It's a shame, how much money my family and I waste
on hiring asylum-seeking Estonians to pick our fields of Midwestern cotton.
It would cost a lot less to clothe, feed, and house a small army of
well-armed and literate African-Americans. A damn shame.
>Just tell me how do you expect the
>government to comply with all of your wishes? If they can't please all
>groups, it's in their best interest to please themselves.
You have a point there. We are much better off spending our tax dollars
on high-class prostitutes, cocaine, hotel rooms, limos, expensive spa
treatments and a fine assortment of silk garters for our congressmen then
actually giving the money to impoverished families and using it to build
more schools instead of prisons.
>A tough skinhead told me that "in theory, if all ethnicities returned to
>their homelands, all would be well in White America."
Oh, a fabulous idea. I have another one to test that theory. We take
every White American who agrees with the above statement and put them on a
land mass no one is using (like Oprah Winfrey, or the state of Idaho) so
that they can experience their precious Aryan solidarity, in fact they can
take all their fast-food chains with them. In a short period of time the
aforementioned celebrity or land mass will begin to sink below sea level
due to the contents of their bloated, enormous bellies, and the heavy rocks
inside their skulls. This will rid us of that nasty scourge in the US:
goddamned bigots. Their remains will be consumed by marine life, which in
turn will one day make really good sushi.
Alternatively, if all of those groups returned to their "homelands", then
America would not exist, as during Pre-historic times, Asia and North
America were linked by a bridge of land called Beringia. So you see, the
first people to populate the Americas were actually Asians coming via the
area of Siberia. In reality, all humans come from the same source.
Countries are not "homelands"; they are mere temporary settlements in the
history of time. And there has been so much racial inter-breeding for so
long that "pure" races don't even exist.
And in theory, if only "White Americans" were left in this country, I would
be out of here faster than you can blink. How boring.
>A neo-nazi asked if I was religious and I replied, "Of course not." He told
>me that if I should ever believe in a God, or that Jews are right that I
>should hang myself after killing as many Jews and religious fucks that I
>can. (This was as intelligent a neo-nazi that I could get close to.)
Well, obviously he did not realize that Seinfeld and Cartman from South
Park are Jewish.
In case you haven't notice, when I get bored and annoyed at people, I
become flippant and sarcastic.
>I think it's very hypocritical to want a perfect government for you
>(i.e. a satisfactory government that meets your demands) but not be a
>perfect citizen for the country.
There is a huge difference between utopian perfection and "satisfactory".
>I do not disagree with anyone shouting out criticisms of America, but not
>all of America is awful.
No, just the couple hundred people on the list, all religious people, gay
men, lesbians, punks, goths, perverts, and nameless other groups. I guess
that leaves you, your Poli Sci professor, and a sock puppet named Fred.
>I live in California which is extremely separate from America.
Oh yes. Extremely. There are beaches there. And rich movies stars. And
Disneyland. The differences never end.
>And if the things we don't want
>happening in our state starting happening, we use our Golden Boot to kick
>those mishaps back to the East coast and the Mid-East.
Your boot kicking trick works all the way to Iraq? Do you think Mickey
Mouse and Michael Jackson are light enough to fly that far from one good
swift motion?
>More on this later when it's not 1:23AM. And if you're all willing to be
>receptive of each others' MATURE COMMENTS AND OPINIONS, I'll happily join in
>with some notes from class.
Please do. I haven't gotten enough of it over the past six years.
Onikan writes to Ben:
>Not only are you an outsider posing as an X-American but you've proven
>yourself to be a cynical highly-opinionated anti-America beast of burden
>who's full of bullshit. Why are you even here if you are so hypocritical?
>That's a rhetorical question.
After some more God-Bless-America wankery, he writes:
>The fact is that I don't care about the rest of America. I live in Southern
>California and to me that's all that matters.
In the very next email he writes:
>I'm enthusiastic to inform you all that I have already won the debate on
>whether or not America is the greatest place to live. And through one little
>statement (which also is the best defense) I will stand up for the greater
>America: The United States of America is the most sought after living space
>in the world.
Hah, spoken like a true patriot. Your logic appears to be based on
pronounced entropy-- it falls apart as it goes on. Otherwise, do you have
a bipolar and/or schizoaffective disassociation disorder? Is it possible
for someone to actually be this blindly hypocritical? That's a rhetorical
question, by the way.
So either you are mentally ill, or an unrepentant troll. I'm guessing the
latter.
>And you trust a third-world traveller? I wasn't going to mention this, but
>that site is horribly designed. In fact, it's bordering on
>less-than-disgusting! It's no wonder your views on the world are so
>distorted! You're trusting whatever you read. May I remind you that there is
>a lot of crap on the Internet. But do what you want. It's not my mind.
I wasn't discussing HTML and web-design; the topic was its content, which
does cover the issues I was writing about quite well.
So I have distorted world views? Hah. Irony.
>So if you hate America, declare that you also hate Americans. If you hate
>Americans, accept that fact that you are anti-American.
Done. As a whole I hate what is against what I am "pro", if that makes
sense to you. While I may be Anti-American, and more specifically anti
(blind) patriotism, I care for individual Americans.
>I am saying this not only for your benefit, but for my benefit. I don't want
>this thread to become any more of a nuisance and a monster than it already
>is. And I don't want to have a big Ad Hominem war.
Riiiiiiiiiiight. Because you are way above doing that. Clearly.
You simultaneously compliment and insult me. Smug little thing you are. I
seriously doubt the sincerity of your intentions here. This will probably
be the last response you are honored enough to get from me. I don't have
much free time to waste.
One last question though: Why are you trolling us? Haven't you discovered
masturbation yet? No wonder you are so full of hostility (among other more
puerile substances.) Shouldn't you be doing homework or something instead?
Obviously your professors are becoming lax in teaching you how to think.
Hmm. My mouth suddenly tastes of gummy bears.
Thank you all, and good night.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sun Sep 22 2002 - 05:06:15 MDT