Re: virus: RE: real news

Bill Roh (sodom@ma.ultranet.com)
Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:43:16 -0500


Good witty reply, I could see a future like that, of course, Id be armed by
then. I just find it "fundamentaly evil" to think of another sentient being as
anything less (or more) than an equal. And before you ask, yes, this would apply
to AIs also. One other note, if the clone is in anyway modified, is it still a
clone? Obviously it would no longer share the same DNA as the owner, mostly, but
not entirely.

Bill

Gifford, Nathan F wrote:

> Sodom wrote:
>
> > I know you are joking about the slavery issue - but I think that a
> lot of people
> > think that a clone means a duplicate. Although this is true
> genetically, a clone
> > is much more a "twin" than anything else, and a twin is a unique
> person.
>
> The difference between my twin and my clone is that my parents
> incurred the costs for delivery and educating my twin. A clone seems more
> like a product then a person ... Note this is certainly a nice proof for the
> existence of memes. It seems that depending on how you spin the production
> a clone could have the same human rights as a tissue sample or it could be
> an actual human being. This would be especially true after we can grow the
> clone in a vat ala Brave New World.
>
> > I am not at all threatened by the concept of clones and cloning. I
> am threatened by
> > the concepts that:
>
> >1> clones are somehow less than people -
> I would argue that depending on the circumstances for the origin of
> the clone it could actually be more than most people. <see point 3>
> > 2> Clones dont have "God given" souls.
> Exactly. Clones are the counter example for the concept of
> "inalienable rights". Imagine a "build a clone kit" that you could buy at
> Walmart - you would replicate DNA taken from say cells from your cheek.
> Then you would embed that DNA in an artificially produced egg. Finally
> you'd place the egg in your clone-a-matic which I can imagine looking a lot
> like a bread maker. (Actually you'd probably just put your starting cells
> in your clone-a-matic). In nine-months you'd have your clone - perhaps
> there would be an entire service industry devoted to raising your clone
> depending on what you wanted from it. If it were just an organ bank then
> you'd pay a nominal fee for clone maintainance - sort of like a garage. The
> point of these places would be to keep your clone in a tabula rasa state so
> the clients don't have any nasty ethical problems like you're talking about.
> On the other hand, for the busy executive who wants to enjoy parenting
> without the nasty emotional and financial burdens of marriage what could be
> better than a clone?
>
> > 3> The rich will use cloning as a tool over the poor
>
> NO clones would be good for the poor :=). One of the things the
> poor could be best at would be caring for clones ... hasn't that always been
> the function of the poor to care for our children, our elderly, and our
> livestock? Industrialization took the poor away from their natural function
> and placed them in factories. Biotechnology is allowing them to return to
> their natural state.
>
> My point here is that social stratifications atomize humanity by
> creating the distinction between us and them. A really succesful memetic
> engineer <ala the bad popes, or Ronald Reagan's handlers> tries to apply
> these stratifications recursively ... with the engineer being at the center
> of the layers of "usness". It's easy to imagine a military-biotechnology
> complex built around some sort of biological elite - ala the movie Gattaca.
> Of course the original basis for the elite would be economic because it
> would take capital to establish genetic superiority.
>
> >Just my off the cuff thoughts.
>
> Me2.