Re: virus: If you're watchin' IT ya' ain't a part of IT (was: David's top 10 (here and now))

sodom (Sodom@ma.ultranet.com)
Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:41:29 -0400


I dont disagree that we cannot get a "photo" of what is happening in the mind of
another, what I am saying is that the feeling of "love" in one person is the
exact same feeling of "love" that another person has. Triggered by the same
chemicals in the same way and in similar quantities. The differences arent in
the chemical makup of love, they are in what happens to the emotion after
traveling through the filters of the subjects mindset. I agree with all the
learning isnt doing stuff - but I am not asking a computer to understand love or
an orgasm - all of us have had those in real life, I am asking a human to
understand love. The subjective love of one mother is not that much different
than the suggestive love of another, we all have the experinece to understand
human nature - what drives us in almost every way is identicle. Need for food,
shelter, companionship, love, fear etc... are the same in almost all of us -
those that differ markedly are removed from society one way or another.

What I am suggesting is this: Just because you cannot personally have another
persons feelings or visions or subjective experiences - in that you cannot put
the thought with its emotions into your head, you can get very close. If
anything, we can get a lot closer to experiencing anothers subjective state than
we can objective reality - which like perfection, is completely unreachable with
our existing hardware and software. Subjectivity is a microscopic piece of the
objective picture.

Bill Roh
Sodom

Tim Rhodes wrote:

> Sodom wrote:
>
> >Subjectivity is just our minds way of explaining what is sees - most of you
> >will agree. If so, with a full understanding of the way the brain
> functions,
> >and I am not stating that we have this understanding yet, we would be able
> to
> >pick subjectivity apart and describe it objectivly.
>
> A complete and full explaination of the physics and mechanics of a roller
> coaster is not the same as the _experience_ of riding it. You seem to have
> overlooked the fact that subjectivity is by definition the "the viewpoint of
> the subject". There is no `magic' involved in saying that the viewpoint of
> an observer is not the same as that of the subject. No matter how well one
> understands the electro-chemical, hormonal, psychological, and emotional
> effects of an experience, nevertheless this still remains qualitatively
> different from what is actually experienced by the subject.
>
> Even a perfectly understood orgasm is not the same as having one.
>
> -Prof. Tim