> At 02:25 PM 9/21/98 -0400, sodom wrote:
>
> >As for psychologically - unless the person was a minor, mentally or
> emotionally
> >incapacitated(depressed for physical reasons, handicapped etc...) I think
> >everyone, including those I love, need to be able to defend themsleves
> >psychologically. I may jump in and state my mind, but under NO circumstances
> >would I do this against the will of the person I cared about.
>
> What's the difference between psychological and physical? Don't you think
> emotional pain is real? Should all threats be legal if they aren't literally
> carried out?
You didnt quote my whole passage, before this snippit I siad
"At the point where you come into physical contact, or threaening physical
contact". Threats are similar to the concept of yelling fire in a movie theatre.
Threats are where the this freedom should end.
> What if the stranger convinced the one you cared about to hurt themselves
> physically? (or in this case, let themselves die?) Is that physical or
> psychological?
This happens every day, all over - "Snake oil" is still sold to millions in the
form "touch therapy" "aroma therapy" "Iris Diagnosis" - should we force these
people to stop selling their wares? There is no doubt that these people are
responsible for many deaths every year by discouraging proven techniques. Should
we go after these practicioners, prosecute them? Admittedly I have never been in
your situation, and I hope that I never am in it, and I might act differently
under the emotional burden (I am not a robot after all), but my hope is that my
basic response would remain the same. I did have a similar experience that was
not life threatening. Beware - this may sound cold hearted. When my wife was
dealing with serious depression, she met some hard core Christians who promised
to take her pain away, and bring joy and Jesus into her life. She came to me and
asked for my opinion and and what effect I thought it might have. I told her that
a lot of people find consolation and happiness there, but - then I gave my little
diatribe about my disgust for the religion, it came down to this. Your belief
system is your choice, but I cannot risk my children to Christianity, so "the day
you convert, I will divorce you. The choices you make and the people you listen
to are your choice, but I have the same choices, and I will not entangle myself
or my future children in the web of religion"
Of course, a few weeks later, she discovered Paxil, and all talk of religion
became mute - Paxil = Jesus in that now she is mostly happy, and has not had to
deal with depression since that time - 1.5 yrs ago.
> >Why do you find the concept so hard to believe? What seems strange or
> >unbelievable about it to you? I was under the impression that my feelings in
> >this regard were quite common.
>
> I find it hard to believe you think everything is so clearly black and white
> when it clearly is not.
>
I have chosen the black and white because it seems quite clear cut to me.
Physical or the threat of physical action is the deciding factor for me. And
nothing else. sorry to seem so heartless about it, but it seems to have the
opposite effect on you than it does on me. It seems to me quite a pleasant
thought that everyone is responsible for their own psychological condition, and
that every effect that a decision has is of their own making. I had wanted to
help, sorry if I did the opposite.
Sodom
Bill Roh