I can see where we differ now. I was just interested in if the meme had
made a copy but you wanted to show if it had become a belief or affected
behavior in some way. Similar to downloading executable code onto a hard
drive. I just wanted to see if the file was there but you wanted to see
if it was downloaded and run! Consider this then, In algebra word
problems are generally the hardest ones for students to master. They
have to take what they know of algebra and make it fit new situations.
In short to solve those kinds of problems they must execute the algebra
memes. Memorization alone will not work. If the behavior is the ability
to solve word problems then application of the algebra memes can be
shown to affect that behavior.
>
> Well, I would be happy to find, in the brain, the first effector of a
> behavior. The behavior would need to be simplified immensely, like an
> eye-movement towards a specific area.
Walk up to somebody and say "shoe's untied" and see how many folks look
at their shoe. That's definitely a meme affecting behavior.
Or I would be happy to show a
> situation where a like behavior can be shown to require a meme, or not
> require a meme,
Ask a child to solve three minus five. They need the meme of negative
numbers to do so.
and the requisite brain scan or other evidence that said
> behavior can happen with two different sets of electro-chemical
> effectors, such that one is autonomous (or learned by habit and rote) and
> one is cultural, that is, some level of conscious thought is needed- (or
> simply two distinct brain activations can produce the same result.)
Put two folks in a maze. Let one of them walk around and find the exit
the hard way. The other one, give em' a map.
>
> My initial and specific idea was to examine dream states, since I
> consider dream states to be absent of memes, since there is no behavior,
> but there is internal 'mapping'.
>
It is my theory that creatures sleep for one simple reason: to
conserve energy at such a time as when being awake would just waste it.
(Night creatures sleep in the day and visa versa) After that the brain
patterns for sleep then had no more pressures for evolution. (like the
locked in patterns of embryo development.) My theory then is your brain
at night acts much the same way as any other animal: it uses images and
emotions to process information, not the kind of symbolic representation
you are using right now reading this.
> But you see, I am also in the camp of the neuro-biologists here- I do not
> think the meme will be found any other way, and that what is 'found' is a
> somewhat handy but diffuse and vague bunch of ramblings about ideas and
> mind, all tossing out at sea in a raft without a sail.
>
> Wade T. Smith
Well you never did offer me up the hypothesis you wanted to test. No
wonder your adrift at sea. Tim however did offer up a hypothesis and as
promised, I came up with an experiment to test it! ( Well part of his
hypothesis any ways)
Nate hall