Re: virus: Random thoughts & more poor analogies!

Nathaniel Hall (natehall@WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:40:11 -0600


Wade T.Smith wrote:
>
> >Are you asking is it possible to determine if a meme has
> >occupied a mind?
>
> And I consider your following to be no more evidence of such than a crop
> circle is evidence of alien visitation.

By "your following" do you mean

1)folks like me who think there is something worth studying in memes

or do you mean

2) the following stuff you have written below is bunk?
>

> >Then I'd say most folks have undergone such a "test".
> >Quite literally. I'm taking about the kind of test we all had to take in
> >school. Like the SAT or ACT.
>
> What?!

Would you not agree if you can answer a question correctly, then you
have shown you have acquired the meme (or memes) necessary to do so?
>
> > What is a test after all but an evaluation
> >to see if certain memes have successfully replicated into your mind? Its
> >the kind of data scientists love, ready made, complete with error
> >analysis!
>
> No, it is not data of any such sort at all. It is a result of a specific
> test, created to determine the amount of concordance the test-takers have
> with an expected result.
>
Isn't that the way experimentation generally is? You have an hypothesis,
you put it to the test (with a control also) then you see how close your
data matched up with your prediction. (With the predicted error pre
calculated of course!) I'll admit its hard to get a control when dealing
with minds. With minds being all different you can't test the thing you
want to test in isolation. However a whole bunch of minds taken on
average can be tested and another bunch of minds can serve as the
control. This is how doctors get around the "every model is different"
problem. For large samples on average the differences balance each other
out.

> Nope, and this is exactly the sort of claim of 'experimental' evidence
> that makes 'memetics' just as specious and meretricious as phrenology,
> and causes scientists who deal in actual experimental protocols to be so
> derisive of all such claims. Memetics is a laughing stock in many
> circles....

> Wade T. Smith

Let me try a thought experiment here. You tell me what hypothesis
concerning memes you would like an experiment created for and I'll see
if I can come up with an experiment that tests that hypothesis. Is that
a fair enough deal?

Nate Hall
Your a good guy to write to. We both seem to have the knack for
miscommunication with each other. An excellent way to sharpen up what
you meant to say with what you really said!