Re: virus: No God
Nathaniel Hall (natehall@WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:24:36 -0600
Bob Hartwig wrote:
>
> >
> >Thinking is, in fact, largely a process of faith. Every time you take a
> >hypothesis and think it out to its conclusion you are using faith. Trusting
> >in the scientific method is faith.
> >
>
> Richard, you're defining words in a screwy fashion here. When people on
> this list talk about faith, they're using Webster's first definition:
> "unquestioning belief that does not require proof or evidence". The
> scientific method itself is antithetical to this. Trusting in the
> scientific method does not require faith, it simply requires the
> observation that the scientific method works, and works well. Thinking out
> a hypothesis to it's conclusion does not require faith, assuming that the
> "thinking out" entails analyzing evidence.
>
> > Believing that truth is more important
> >than happiness is faith.
>
> True, but you've constructed a straw-man. Happiness and the pursuit of
> truth are not mutually exclusive, and I don't recall hearing anyone (except
> possibly you) value one over the other.
>
> I have not read your book, but based on what you've written on this list
> lately, your "Level 2" and "Level 3" concepts seem to place a high value on
> muddled thinking. Perhaps I shouldn't judge your concepts on the logical
> fallacies that you've exhibited here. OTOH, I can't escape the feeling
> that you're trying to start a religion, complete with at least three of
> Robert Lifton's eight criteria for thought reform:
>
> Criteria 6 - LOADING THE LANGUAGE - Eg. redefining "faith" to mean any
> logical or illogical thought process. Using all-encompassing jargon like
> "Level 2" and "Level 3". This is "the language of non-thought" to quote
> Lifton.
>
> Criteria 7 - DOCTRINE OVER PERSON - People can be neatly packaged into
> "Level 2" or "Level 3". Level 3 people are more happy or enlightened than
> Level 2 people. People who have not led a "happy" life are not worthy of
> our study.
>
> Criteria 8 - DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE - People who have not "graduated" to
> Level 3 are doomed to a life of unenlightenment.
>
> Since you found it appropriate to hypothesize about Nate Hall's personality
> by saying "you have a contrarian personality and an irrational addiction to
> analysis", I'll take a shot at your personality. I would guess that you
> have a messiah complex and a phenomenally monstrous ego.
You the man!
Nate Hall