virus: The dangers of Ignorance

Nathaniel Hall (natehall@WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:12:37 -0600


Tim Rhodes wrote:
>
> Nate H. writes:(various items clipped)
>
> >>From the fall of Rome in 476 to the fall of Constantinople in 1453. I
> >don't blame religion for the fall of Rome unlike Edward Gibbon but I do
> >think it prevented progress after the roman collapse.
>
> Just to make sure were on the same page here, if the following is this the
> same period your talking about, it would seem disease and famine had more to
> do with the duration of the the Dark Ages than religion did.

> 541-605 The Great Plague of Justinian (bubonic plague) spreads from Egypt
> to Palistine and thence to Constantinople and throughout the Roman-Byzantine
> world, bringing agiculture to a standstill and resulting in widespread
> famine in Europe, the Near East, and Asia over a period of 60 to 70 years.
> 5,000 to 10,000 _a day_ will die for period in Constantiople alone. [BTW, I
> find it hard to fault the Christians for this one, Nate.]

I wasn't aware that I had blamed them.
>
>
> 601 Indian physicians compile the /Vaghbata/. At least one Indian
> medicinal herb mentioned in the classic work--/Rauwolfia serpentina/--will
> be employed in Western medicine. But this will not happen until 1949 [a
> good 500 years after the fall of Constaninople, Nate] when it will be
> confirmed, by an Indian doctor, to reduce high blood pressure. In 1952
> /reserpitine/, the acive ingredient in pure crystal form, will be isolated
> by Swiss chemists. Its effects not only on blood pressure, but also the
> reduction of anxiety will lead to the discovery of seritonin in the human
> brain the following year.)
>

Did I claim western medicine was perfect? Of course I rather have
western medicine then some "holy man" standing over me and trying to
chant out the evil sprits

>
> 800-900 Agromatic science is now on the decline, despite the growing use of
> the three-field system, and while Scandinavians will improve agriculture,
> which has been unprofitable since the 4th century [having nothing to do with
> religion, Nate], Europe will experience famines from now until the 12th
> century.

Does that mean no famines after the 12th century? How did that happen?

>
> 868 _The Diamond Sutra_ [yes, a religious text, Nate], produced in China,
> is the world's first printed book.
>
It's nice to know the printed word moved on to better things!

> 1086 /The Doomsday Book/ compiled on orders from England's William I lists
> more than 25,000 slaves and 110,000 villeins (serfs) among the properties
> and assets of English landowners.

Figured I'd keep this one. It shows the true sprit of the time.

>
> 1096 The First Crusade raises more than 30,000 men and converges on
> Constantinople in three groups as Norman-French barons rush to take the
> cross. Half the knights of France will set off in the next 30 years either
> for the Levant or for the Islamic lands in northern Spain, but the First
> Crusade has been inspired as much by population pressures (a product of the
> new agriculture) as by religious zeal or desire for plunder.
> [That's Trager writing there, Nate, not me. :-) ]

I can almost hear the sermon:
Take the gold! God demands it! Now get out of here you unwashed hoards!

>
> 1202 Court jesters make their first appearance in European courts.

Wow! Now that's progress!

> 1215 The Magna Carta signed at Runnymede limits the power of the English
> monarchy and reaffirms human rights, chapter 39 stating, "No freeman shall
> be arrested and imprisoned, or dispossessed, or outlawed, or banished, or in
> any way molested; nor will we set forth against him, nor send against him,
> unless by the lawful judgment of his peers, and by the law of the land."

Now this! This I think marks the beginning of the end of the dark ages!
(Of course it was just protection for the privileged class against the
King, but hey, it was a start!)

> 1249 Roger Bacon, 35, fights to make science part of the curriculum at
> Oxford, holding that it is complementary to religion, not opposed to it.

Notice how this fellow had to kow-tow to religion to get his ideas in
play. Good thing he did. (if the authorities realized what the
scientific method would do to their nonsense they would have stopped
him cold! )

> 1267 Roger Bacon, the first truly modern scientist, describes the magnetic
> needle and reading glasses, predicts radiology, and predicts the discovery
> of the Western Hemisphere, the steamship, the airplane, and the television
> in addition to describing the principles of a camera obscura that can
> project pictures.

Talk about a man ahead of his time!

> 1277 Roger Bacon is imprisioned for heresy. He will remain incarcerated
> until two years before his death at age 80 in 1294.

Whoops! Looks like those enlightened religious folks caught up with
this guy after all.

> 1347 Jane I, queen of both the Sicilies and countess of Provence, opens a
> house of prostitution at Avignon in an effort to reduce venerial disease.

I just *love* some of these items of progress you have listed here!

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------> Are these the years without progress you're talking about, Nate?
>
> -Prof. Tim

Really Tim, i'm quite impressed you went to such an effort to label me
ignorant. Of course I could have saved you the effort, you see I have my
own book, "The timetables of
science" By Alexander Hellemans and Bryan Bunch. The thousand years I've
mentioned take up about 40 pages in that book. The 18th century by
comparison takes up about 80. That's twice as much stuff in only one
tenth the time. You do have a point however, I should have proofread my
letter more closely because I meant to say slowed down progress in
Europe. Hard to crush the thinking man completely! (See Mr. Bacon above)

Nate Hall