> > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:02:23 -0400
> > From: Sodom <sodom@ma.ultranet.com>
> > Organization: Tis Pootanis
> > To: virus@lucifer.com
> > Subject: Re: virus: RE: request
> > Reply-to: virus@lucifer.com
>
> > So what if he did? Describe why he should not in an objective fashion.
> > Also, how is it a meme? Perhaps it is the anti-communist meme that we
> > are discussing?
> >
> > Sodom
> > Bill Roh
> >
> One does not have to be anticommunist or anti-most things (except
> anti-butchery and anti-brutality) to be against the actions taken in
> Tienanmen Square in 1989, and to continue to oppose the Chinese
> leaders who ordered and continue to attempt to justify such actions.
I fail to see any significant differences in the way China treats its
population and the way most countries treat their people. The US repeatedly
and deliberately commits grave offenses against humanity without serious
apology. The US incarcerates much more of its own population than China or
any other country does for offenses of the same nature. There are 3/4 of a
million people incarcerated for possession of small amounts of marijuana,
the government of this country deliberately lets minorities die of disease
so it can study its course, deliberately and secretly has irradiated parts
of the population to see the effects, sells weapons to oppressive
governments. Who is the worlds largest exporter of military weaponry? Shall
we speak of the atrocities carried out by most of our allies too? C'mon, I
am not suggesting that Tianamen square was not a tragedy, what I am
suggesting is that human rights are not the issue if all the major countries
are guilty of serious and continuing violations.
As for China, I too see them as a problem for democracy and capitalism
(I am not a believer in democracy or capitalism but for this purpose will
take it's side). I think that the world economy and the sheer weight of the
population will eventually force China to reconsider it's political
structure. I would hope that the people of China take freedom much more
seriously than we have, as in this country, only white, christian males are
free - all others face differing levels of state sponsored oppression.
I would say that the best way to move China and other simialar countries
away from their oppressive styles is to cooperate as much as possible. Bring
as much culture, technology, science, as possible and use it to infect the
Chinese people with our memes. Make it so that China cannot function alone
without being unentangled from the rest of the capitalistic world.
Also, lets face it, when it comes to butchery and brutality in this
world, the US is the hands down winner. In the history of our country, We
have obliterated 10s of millions of American natives, Carpet bombed whole
populations, dropped the big bomb 2x (and what a pretty fireball i might
add). Over half of our history included slavery, subjugation of women,
genocide of the american native. It would take volumes and volumes to
describe American butchery.
So the meme you are worried about is not anti-butchery, or
anti-communist, it is the nationalist meme - Americans are right, all others
are by default, wrong. Thats the best thing about being an American, you are
always on the morally correct side - YES!
Sodom
Bill Roh
> They have, however, already lost; when the next generation matures
> into positions of power, it will be like the USSR all over again.
> The Chinese youth have been irreversibly infected with the freedom
> meme, and it will eventually prevail.
>
> > Mark Robbins wrote:
> >
> > > meme of the day :
> > > Did Clinton sell technologies to China
> > > See /hear
> > > http://www.warroom.com/listen.html
> >
> >
> >