Re: virus: Definition of meme

Robin Faichney (robin@faichney.demon.co.uk)
Fri, 1 May 1998 15:32:34 +0100


In message <199805010933.CAA12189@smtp.northlink.com>, John Dale
<johnd@northlink.com> writes
>Dear Jake,
>
> From what you say, then, the concept of meme is based on
>the concept of information, and we are taking a slice or
>segment of the information stream and calling it a meme.

It's a mistake to think of information only in terms of
streams. Any kind of pattern, static or dynamic, is an
item of information.

> Now, if that's the case, I wonder a couple things. (Sorry
>of this duplicates some other observations on this list.)
>
> First, a segment can be of any arbitrary length, so the
>question arises, "How long can a meme be?" If there is no
>limit on its possible length, is one slice of the
>information stream as good as any other? Could we have a
>meme which is a second long, a minute long, a day long, a
>season long, a year long?

The concept of meme size has been much discussed, but I'm
not really up on that issue.

> Second, since in biological systems information is dealt
>with in a continuous way at least at some levels, how do
>discontinuous memes arise out of a continuous stream?

The same way patterns occur as part of larger patterns.
Not a problem!

> Third, how, if at all, do we integrate the meme concept
>into other information system concepts such as
>input, output, feedback, feedforward.

Good question! (BTW, what exactly is "feedforward"?)

> Fourth, how is the concept of replication of information
>related to the concept of the similarity of information?

This is about the numerical identity of information. Two
instances of the same pattern are exactly that: the same
pattern. That is why information can be copied (either
with or without error). Biological reproduction is no
different from any other sort of copying, in principle,
and this fact shows the relationship between life and
information. And similarity is identity -- however slight
the similarity between two things, as long as there is
some, then an aspect of them is identical, and this aspect
is a pattern, an item of information. Genes and memes are
both items of information, and therefore can survive by
reproduction.

>By replication of information, are we talking about memory?
>Or are we talking about, by analogy, two separate chemical
>reactions giving us a similar product?

We're talking about the existence of one instance of a
pattern causing the occurrance of another instance of
the same pattern.

-- 
Robin