The meme is in the mind, and only in the mind -- I agree with Wade.
Fortune cookies are just that, cookies. This applies to any invention or
technology.
There are ideas/beliefs associated with fortune cookies: "Fcs are yummy
after a Chinese meal"/"Fcs are yuck". There are ideas/beliefs outside the
dichotomy as well: "Fcs are wonderful playthings for cats"/"Help I'm a
prisoner in a Fc factory."
I think that these myriad _ideas_ are the memes that inhabit people's
minds, that self-replicate from one individual to the next.
Likewise, one could say that an equivalent gamut of ideas/beliefs ("memes")
might apply to any invention/technology. Including hybrid corn's adoption
by farmers -- which was the foundation for Roger's model -- which led to
his S-shaped curve for diffusion of innovations -- which was widely
verified in other contexts. <Hybrid corn is better than traditional corn>
would be the associated meme that was successfully diffused.
>Anyway, a 'meme' is _not_ the thing used to transmit it in any case.
Again I agree with Wade. The meme is not the radio jingle, not the
magazine ad, not my voice telling you that Fcs have aphrodysiacal
properties. It isn't the fortune cookie either. The meme is the _idea_
that is transmitted _about_ the Fc.
>The manipulative objects like slogans and mottos and catchphrases and
>prejudices so often called 'memes' are just what they are- slogans and
>mottos and....
Yes. And these "manipulative objects" would be _ways_ to transmit an idea
about the Fc. The idea, an only the idea, is the "meme".
>There is a little more sense in talking about the _medium_ itself
>memetically, IMHO. (Reed, where are ya?) The sum total of CRT, jump cuts,
>FX, and sound that is modern TV advertising is an astoundingly rich field
>of investigation. It's not so much the technology, but the effects
>produced which are 'memetics' to me.
I agree that these media and techniques are fascinating objects of study
re. contagion/diffusion (what works? what doesn't? why?), but am not sure
we need to introduce memetics in order to pursue these studies. Might we
be able to conduct them entirely within the confines of psychology?
We seem to be talking about 3 different levels here. A gross analogy: If
I want to affect my brain (be contaminated by a meme) I can take a pill
(see a TV ad). The pill can be presented in several shapes and colors (FX,
jump cuts, etc.), which will affect my desire to take it. The pill is not
the meme: it's the effect of the pill which is the meme.
Adopting Dawkins' def of "self-replicating idea", the meme in the fc
example might be, <I want a fc after a Chinese dinner.>
Which brings me back to Rogers. His model of innovators adopting a meme
and diffusing it throughout a group seems to work here. And maybe the
diffusion of memes in general follows the pattern described by his model.
Am I making sense?
lena
-- Lena Rotenberg lrr@netkonnect.net