> Hi,
>
> Paul Prestopnik <pjp66259@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu>
> > I just feel that there is more information associated with memes and
> > with the church than most people need to know.
>
> Need to know? Which parts of the CoV are parts which people don't need to
> know? huh??? Our "unpopular" beliefs? I think that such a view of the CoV
I don't think I said anything about unpopular beliefs in that latest post. I
corrected myself. If CoV wants to piss people off, I guess that is one way to
try and make them think.. although it's probably going to retard the
spread.As for information members of CoV may not need or want to know. A great
example of recent times was the set theory that Prof Tim proposed. While this
was not extremely difficult, I would venture to say that >80% of the population
doesn't really understand set notation. Any sort of mathematical
representation or discussion of memetics will be over the head of the general
populace. In the same respect there are probably bureaucratic decisions that
must be made, that every member of CoV does not need to be aware of.
> leaves it without meaning (effect) -- what good is an orginization founded
> to fight dogmatism if it doesn't fight it? (not to mention that not
> fighting it would be both apathetic *and* hypocritical, the *other* two
> sins!)
Not immediately attacking new members belief systems is neither apathetic or
hypocritical. Often it is easier to change someone's mind by simply giving
them the tools to see there own mistakes. People generally hold false beliefs
because of a lack of information.
> You say "we should refrain from attacking peoples cherished beliefs." I
> could not disagree more. If the CoV is not willing to stand up and voice
> our opinions, we should just fold up shop now.
You seem to only read the parts of my messages that you disagree with. Even
if it means leaving words out in the middle of sentences. Maybe I was not
clear, I meant that we should not immediately attack new members of CoV. This
is what pushed chardin away from this list. Now granted she was once person,
with very strong beliefs, but if we ever want to try and spread our beliefs,
attacking new comers will not work. I'm not saying I have an answer, but in my
experience the only way I have EVER convinced someone to doubt their religious
convictions was by asking them questions and letting them find the answers for
themselves. The times I have seen others attempt to sway a religious belief by
ferociously bludgeoning it with logic or appeals to other authorities, it has
always failed. I am no expert in these matters and rather than type IMHO
before everything I say, I expect people will realize that I am making
judgments based on my observations.I'm not married to the idea of levels, if
others think it is a bad idea that's fine. I'm sure informal levels (groups)
will develop within the CoV, as it grows, if we do not create formal ones.
People who are interested in describing memetics according to mathematical
equations will gather in one group, whereas those who are more interested in
the social ramifications and creating change will gather in another.
-Paul Prestopnik