Re: virus: MEME UPDATE: To Censor Or Not?

Dave Pape (
Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:03:43 GMT

At 11:40 11/12/96 -0800, you wrote:
>At 17:14 12/11/96 -0000, you wrote:
>>Matt Waggoner wrote:
>>>I agree that memes do influence us, the way we act and think,
>>>but to say that we have no free will whatsoever implies that we have no
>>>soul. I'm sure you can see the problems inherent in adopting that
>>>particular philosophy.
>>>I know I don't like being told I have no soul.
>>In what sense do you use the term "soul"? If you mean a spiritual entity
>>that survives after death and all that, then I'm afraid you might be told
>>the very thing you don't like being told quite often on this list.
>>Andy Cheyne {}
>Yes, by "soul" I mean all that. And I may be told that, but they can't
>prove it.

Matt, I personally think your argument here is just as much a cop-out as
someone using lack of freewill to justify antisocial behaviour.

>Besides, if there is no free will, then there's no point to existence
>because everything's already predetermined and we should all just kill
>ourselves right now. Why not?

There's no point to existence but it DOESN'T FOLLOW THAT WE SHOULD ALL KILL
OURSELVES. How can you justify that?

I'd argue that it's predetermined that most people won't kill themselves if
they start thinking that they have no freewill, because they are biological
organisms which are the result of evolutionary processes, and organisms
which take care of themselves, don't neglect themselves, and don't kill
themselves, will enjoy a competitive advantage (in genetic terms) over
organisms which behave as though thy don't value their own lives.

I don't believe in freewill. I believe that every twitch of my finger
muscles is predetermined as I type this. And I'm not going to kill myself
because I'm a smooth lanky ape-thing, hosting a lot of memes which control
much of what I do, but I don't want to die.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (The more things change, the more
it's a meme thing)

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