Re: virus: Does God really exist?
Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:21:50 -0700 (MST)

> >But what if, as Lior suggests,
> >a religion is redefined as any meme-complex based on a stance about the
> >existence of god? Does this new definition shed any light on the issues
> >at hand?
> >David McFadzean

> Fine, redefine. IMHO, you're merely adding more cooks to the kitchen, and
> engaging in word-play.

> Any acceptance of the supernatural is a religion, by definition*, and
> atheism is naturalistic. I suggest that what you attempt to redefine above
> is already in place, and it's called theology. It's also a useless Sunday
> morning word game... although it's kind of fun, in a so-what kind of way.

> Since I do not accept the supernatural (since I have been presented with no
> evidence of it), my stance often appears belligerently at odds with many
> mild agnostics.

> *re-lig-ion - n. -
> 1.a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
> creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized
> system grounded in such belief and worship.

I'd like to add to the semantic argument at hand. First I'd like to state that
I'm a Christian (and a Mormon at that). However I'm not here to convert
anyone. Instead I'd like you to hear an expansion of the definition your using
to show your point. "Belief (trust or confidence. Scientists are not trained
to have trust OR confidence. Instead they're trained to doubt without
empirical evidence)in and reverence(how can you have a sense of profound honor
and respect without being able to trust due to the lack of empirical evidence?)
for a supernatural (if you've read the bible you'll notice NEVER once does God
claim to have a power that exists outside the natural universe... if it did how
could he use it in this universe? Instead he useses power some just don't
understand yet.)power or powers.
Regarded as creator of the universe (A story I once heard; Copernicus was
talking to a friend of his. The friend was a devout athiest. The athiest said
that there was no evidence that a god could really exist. Rather than fighting
over the subject Copernicus bid his friend good day. The next morning the
friend got in touch with Copernicus. He told him about a model of the solar
system that showed up on his front door step. He was trying to figure out how
it got there. Copernicus smiled and replied,"It must have just shown up."
"But that's not possible, things don't just appear out of nowhere".).
A personal or institutionalized system (now we've removed God from
religion. First in the definition, religion is about God, now it's about
people?) grounded in such belief or worship (according to the first part of the
definition you CAN'T worship God. God was outside the natural universe. How
do you worship something outside the natural universe? It might be more
useful to stick with a definition of God that you don't try to use
non-emotional logic to create. You see, the word belief (along with hope and
faith) requires emotion. I'd like you to try to get through a day without
hope, belief, or faith. If you can do it, then I'll believe in Athiests.
Otherwise I'd have to say an Athiest is just someone who's scared of what they
can't see, and so hide like a child would.)
I've stated a good deal many things in this email. Feel free to respond
to me directly ( I don't wish to offend anyone, as all
of what I've stated is soley my opinion. I've done the best I can stating why
I have the perspective I do on the situation. If what I've stated lacks merit,
contact me. I'd like to hear a difference of opinion.