Re: virus: Why swim upstream? (was: Re: Not Homophobic)

Dave Pape (davepape@dial.pipex.com)
Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:55:49 +0100

At 01:06 11/06/99 -0700, Tim wrote:
>David wrote:
>
>>Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to this thread (for hopefully
>>obvious reasons)....
>
>>Please don't try to censor through insults. It never works
>>and the list quickly degenerates into flamewars.
>
>And is THAT the kind of list we want here?!?
>
>(Hmmmm... Wait a minute... Back-up... ) Maybe that shouldn't be such a flip
>smartass question after all. (?) Maybe it is a serious question worth
>asking:
>
>At the end of the day, isn't it really the petty arguments, the verbal
>sparring, the rare chance to slam-dunk some stupid ignorant yokel, that
>keeps bringing us back for more? Shouldn't we all just admit that?

I think we should. Stand up and say "I am a social ape that can't choose not to enter into symbolic fighting for peergroup status" or some better thought out and more catchy equivalent.

>Lately I haven't been participating as much on the list as I have in the
>past. I can't seem to get into the rhythm of it anymore. All the arguments
>sound the same and the bickering just gets on my nerves. I doubt that the
>overall content of the posts have changed substantially. But maybe I have.

I'm not sure you have.

My theory is that people's relationships with others on the list have probably become ingrained/learned/established, meaning that there's less flexibility in how people react to each other.

What I'm getting at is that whenever you develop a relationship with someone, you learn (some of) your reactions to what they do: my relationship with my girlfriend has various semi-automatic sequences of behaviour, which have developed from drawn-out and unmanaged periods of rowing into well-rehearsed dances and in-joke systems, and serve to settle issues like "you haven't washed up as much as me over the last week" or "when are we going to decide where we're going on holiday". On the flipside, there's things each of us does (or LOOKS LIKE WE'RE ABOUT TO DO) which drives the other up the wall- IE if I look like I'm about to play techno on her stereo loudly, she'll start getting vexed, even if I'm actually going over to pick up mugs to wash prior to making her a cup of tea.

Ingrained relationships- self-organising social systems.

It could be that you're a similar Tim to how you were x years ago (1996, wasn't it? Fucking hell) and that list-dudes still talk about the same things, BUT that their relationships- supportive and hostile- have become ingrained and predictable.

Could be that we need THREE virus mailing lists, so that people can choose which to be a member of based on what views they have on brodielevels, the reality of reality, freewill, the mathematical modelability of memetics, etc. Maybe then within those lists people would fight less.

FOR A WHILE HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

because after a time the relationships WITHIN the subgroups would become ingrained again, and there'd be social hierarchies and splits and factions once again.