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Joe: Abstraction IS a description
Me: I said as much.
Joe: (which must be symbolically represented to be expressed at all),
Me: I disagree that an abstraction MUST be represented. A group of
apples and oranges may be abstracted to an idea, "fruit" which does not
have to be represented to be expressed.
Joe: but a type description rather than a token description.
Me: Yes, type vs. token is what I am implying... the abstraction
"chair" (as "a thing to sit upon") may be the justification for
declaring a *couch* to be a chair; whereas, the "token" loveseat is a
phenomena of the idea of chairness when utilized as such.
Joe: ...Images, being particular, are as a rule descriptive rather than
prescriptive.
Me: I am describing two types of normative representations
("images")... the image which is limited through censure is prescriptive
(for example, art which is considered NOT pornographic by community
standards may be held-up as an image of what is "decent"): The one
which "emotes" is descriptive (perhaps, the way I portray myself in
public, my "image").
Joe: ...To abstract does NOT prescribe, or say how a certain class of
things SHOULD BE; rather it describes how a certain class of things
TYPICALLY IS.
Me: An image, or *norm*, which is established through agreement and
compromise IS prescriptive-- it is an image of how things "should" be by
its very nature.* This is contrasted from an ideal representation which
portrays a specific "image"... agreement and compromise to the fact of
*a "typical" example is averaged to a common level through assumed, or actual, compromise and agreement to this fact.
Joe: Since your purported premise definitions are already so horribly
flawed, there is no reason for me to proceed to debunk the balance of
your word salad.
Me: The intent to "debunk" already encapsulates your argument and
disqualifies it for serious consideration.
Brett Lane Robertson
Indiana, USA
http://www.window.to/mindrec
MindRecreation Metaphysical Assn.
BIO: http://members.theglobe.com/bretthay
...........
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mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id TAA22220; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by maxwell.kumo.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA18195 for virus-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:21:33 -0600Message-Id: <199905210221.WAA25476@mail1.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: virus@lucifer.com
From: BrettMan35@webtv.net (Brett Robertson) Date sent: Thu, 20 May 1999 20:56:00 -0500 (EST) To: virus@lucifer.com Subject: RE: virus: pop quiz #14 Send reply to: virus@lucifer.com
> Prescriptive is to Descriptive as Normative is to....
>
> iconographic
>
> The differences between what is abstract, ideal, essential, symbolic,
> archetypal, and/ or what relates to an image or idol-- as well as what
> is iconographic-- is subtle.
>
> What you MIGHT be saying is:
>
> How is the essential nature of a thing restated, within a systems
> representation that might include it, such that the abstraction of it
> (what is prescriptive) describes a SIMILAR quality to the symbolization
> of it (what is descriptive). These two qualities (the abstraction and
> the symbolic representation) MAY be referred to as the normative image
> and the phenomenal image (meaning "the one which names" it and "the one
> which expresses it"); though, this characterization doesn't address a
> different essential nature in the two cases.
>
Abstraction IS a description (which must be symbolically
represented to be expressed at all), but a type description rather
than a token description. It describes the characteristics of a
typical chair, rather than describing a particular chair. Images,
being particular, are as a rule descriptive rather than prescriptive.
An ideal is another matter entirely (these are two different species
of PROTOTYPE); the difference (following George Lakoff) can be
seen when we think about the difference between the ideal
husband or wife and the typical one. To abstract does NOT
prescribe, or say how a certain class of things SHOULD BE; rather
it describes how a certain class of things TYPICALLY IS. Since
your purported premise definitions are already so horribly flawed,
there is no reason for me to proceed to debunk the balance of your
word salad.
>
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