Hi Dave,
Thanks for a great post. You have a depth of experience with this issue too, it seems -- and I am interested in collaborating with you. Could you forward me any other related posts from your past? Are you interested in peer-reviewing what I have written so far for the epistemology?
Dave Hall <davehall@dbn.lia.net> writes:
<<
Email lists, Web forums and usnet groups are, IMO, the cybersocietal
equivalent to a beerhall. And using it as such can serve a pretty
useful function. Use email, don't let it use you. IMO.
>>
I've thought in depth about this point (emails lists are social as well as "academic") as well. For the CoV, however, I think that what we want is more of a Church setting than a bar setting: a place where people can come to talk about and decide on important issues in their lives. I don't know what a "beerhall" atmosphere would be like (I'm not a beer drinker), but I think we want something more serious than that. That said, one of the problems I wish to solve with my epistemology is the "distance" that email seems to give writers from their readers. We need a more personal -- more Dionysian -- atmosphere. (I want a more "human" forum) I am entirely unsure how to get from here to there, however. Do you have any suggestions?
<<
I use the word beerhall specifically because I've tried to imagine the
20s-30s (age wise) of people like Tesla, Nietzche, Goethe "growing up"
in and around the various of the various "Germanic" universites. As I
have no interest in re-inventing the polyphase adaptor itself,
learning the "message" that came from Tesla is/was not important ...
rather what was important (for me) is learning to think LIKE Tesla so
as to use the "thinking skills" he consciously developed. His clues
for his inventions came from his environment, and those included the
"beerhalls" where students/terachers could gather for a night of idle
chatter and pick up clues, and more importantly "spot" like minded
people.
>>
Interesting. See, I think of the CoV as more of a place where things get done (or *should* get done, anyway) -- more like a conference or business meeting (in the good sense of that -- not the "Dilbert" sense).
As Virians, it is contended that we have *shared* goals -- and I think that the purpose of the email-list should be find those goals, and then to coordinate Virians as we strive to acheive them.
As to meeting like minded people -- that occurs anyway on Virus, irregardless of the dynamic and goal: as evidence, I offer the current members. We are like minded individuals, even to the extent that our dominant personality is INTJ. Do you think we need to concentrate more on that aspect?
<<
To position myself: I've spent the last 9 months drowning myself in
as much email possible (1000+ / day .. from a wide variety of topics)
to get a feel for authentic "info overload" (not just the idea),
develop "mental" coping mechanisms, and understand where this "email
thing" is headed .. in order to try build a picture of a functional UI
of the future, say over the next 10 years. Over the past 10 years,
I've <un?>fortunately had the experience of developing 3 different
"functional UIs" on top of the IP protocol "application" layers of
nntp, smtp, ftp, http etc. starting in 1991. So I have a bit of an
idea of where the actual problems lie and a few ideas for solutions.
No rocket science involved .. this is just one of the ways I get my
kicks in life.
>>
Excellent! We sound as if we are on a similar type of quest. I would love to try 1000 emails/day just to see what's it's like -- certainly my current strategy of reading all of them wouldn't work!
Do you think that a change in UI (user interface) can change some of the (negative) dynamics of email discussion? (if so how?) Or do you merely think that a better UI can make it so that such negative dynamics are less important -- i.e. so the reader can sift through the chaff faster and with less effort to get at the grain?
<< (snip)
As writers are satisfying an urge to be heard and should be given
every opportunity to say what it is they have to say, I suggest a kind
of "mirror" list to the main list, where each compuslive writer
submits ONE posting per day, in *addition* to the normal load in the
regular list. Those with the patience to wait a day before manically
attacking their keyboards, thereby be able to choose and give thought
to the best discussion topic get to do it in style and with
professionalism. And then spend an hour, instead of dozens of 5 minute
"CyberRoadRage" bursts to write thoughtfully about the topic.
>>
CyberRoadRage! Excellent term! This is an interesting "solution" as well, and one I had not thought of. What it comes down to is exactly the same type of thing as I am advising -- only you keep the current behaviour intact and make the new effort "extra" rather than replacing the old effort. I do not think it would work, but the idea of preserving a place to talk without a conscious approach -- to "ramble" or "distract" as it were, might be a valuable one. How many people use Virus as an outlet to "express" or "vent" themselves? (speak now of forever hold your peace)
<<
That way we get the best of both worlds. It's all about supply and
demand. I am a READER pleading with the WRITERS to improve the quality
of your work, so that I may better learn from your insights.
>>
Exactly.
<<
One creates demand by providing quality.
>>
Could we make this a maxim? (or is it too optimistic, not reflecting proper memetic insights for Virus?)
ERiC