Hi,
Snow Leopard <juliet784@hotmail.com> writes:
<<
>Well, you've summed up what *Paul* said Christianity was. Now do you
>care to find out what *Jesus* said it was? Or *James*?
I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Jesus said follow me
and I will make you fishers of men. Well, guess what? I agree, and
this is a lovely fishing hole. I don't happen to have anything for
James, but the pont is, it's one doctrine told diferent ways, like the
light of a prism.
>>
Well, I think you should go back and read the gospels again. While it is true that Jesus was fishing for men, why was he motivated to do this? What was the message that Jesus sent his disciples out to say? Another good way to check on Jesus's beliefs is to read his *very first* speech to a crowd -- what does he say first, even before he says "I will make you fishers of men"?
As to James, he is famous for being in utter contradiction to Paul, to the extent that Martin Luther wanted to rip the book of James from the Bible. Perhaps you would benefit by reading it, as I certainly find James to be a voice of reason and sense.
<<
>Or how about -- horror of horrors -- what *you* personally have found
>of value in Christianity?
Personally? I've found that Christianity is, for me, a driving force.
My time talking with all of the people who are don't have phaith in
Christ, but have sharp intellects, is the best time I have. In a way,
it's like military service- while I'm doing my duty to tell what I
believe to be truth, to defend Christianity and uphold morality as
best as I can (wish me luck) I get to see interesting things and look
in on many fascinating perspectives.
>>
That's a good response. In my experience, one doesn't need luck to uphold morality; one need courage.
I generally approach these situations hoping to learn something --
what do you know that I should?
<<
You'd think so, but I've seen at least four iron-clad arguments
against the usual conception of the Christian god, and only one
against santa claus. But even that aside, I don't see why an argument
should have to be made against either of their existences. The burden
of proof rests on those who believe. Otherwise, I'd have to come up
with arguments disproving the existence of anything anybody ever
thought up... including the IPU (PBuH), Eris, Thor, Tinkerbell,
Mythras, Vishnu, Allah, Kali, the Buddha, the X-files aliens,
leprechauns, and all fictional characters ever created.
That's nice, but I can disprove Santa Claus a lot easier than you can
disprove the God of the Bible.
>>
(it's too bad that irrationality doesn't reduce linearly with the
number of gods believed in; the world would be such a nicer place)
<<
OK. Why I should have to point them out to you is beyond me, but you
can try your hand at the conflict between James and Paul.
The funny thing is, every Biblical *discrepancy* I've heard of so far
can be explained, if one looks though the Biblical world view. I
challenge anyone reading this to point out a few, I'll show you what I
mean.
>>
If you want me to quote the verses, tell me first which version of the Bible we are going to use, as we want to be consistent. (I would prefer the NIV, the KJV, or the GoodNews Bible, since I own them, but would not be adverse to the RSV, or YLT)
If you do manage this, I have another nasty surprise ready just in time for easter... :-)
<<
On the other hand, I have invested an incredible amount of time trying
to understand the viewpoints of otherr religions. I see the
discrepancies, ask around, and then the members of *whatever* think
that I'm being spiteful. So, it looks like they're being sore losers.
I keep checking. If God is not what I think he is, and he is powerful
enoughto do anything, and caring enough to think of humans as more
than giga-pets, then He'll make the truth known to me. He knows I'm
listening.
>>
He can only tell you if he exists -- i.e. in exactly the situation you should be concerned about (his non-existence), your above point is moot. I know you can do better than that!
ERiC
... on an unrelated note, can anybody tell me the bible version in which the Lord's prayer contains "and forgive us for our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us"? I said that thousands of times as a child, and am now unable to find the Bible version from which it came! Most versions have "wrong doings" or "debts" in the place of "trespasses". It has become something of a minor mystery for me.