I think there is what Hofstadter would call "level confusion" (not to be confused with Level 3) here. Having a belief in faith is not the same as having faith. Arriving at a decision using reason is not the same as arriving at a decision using faith. For one thing, it takes longer.
Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/
Author, "Virus of the Mind: The New Science of the Meme"
http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/votm.htm
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com]On Behalf
Of David McFadzean
Sent: Sunday, March 7, 1999 8:28 PM
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: pale religious lechery
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Brodie <richard@brodietech.com>
Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 7:51 PM
><<What if for every situation where faith is useful, it can be shown that
>you
>would be at least as well off using reason and sometimes better off?
>Wouldn't that be an excellent reason to abandon faith? Of course it would
>take a reasonable person to understand the merit of this argument and
>therein lies the dilemma :-)>>
>
>OK, I'm waiting for your proof. The trouble is, no such proof is possible.
Say you hold a belief, X, in faith. It is either useful or not. If it is useful, then explaining how and why it is useful is identical to arriving at the same belief X through reasoning. If it is not useful, then no explanation or line of reasoning will show that it is. QED.
David