Actually - Logic is not behind it - physics is the description - as you know - and logic is in part defined by the nature of Physics. you know all this - the order is important. The difference - our knowledge of logic and physics and science advance continually (less so with logic as it is more of a creation in my opinion). There is not a time when this was not so. As we learn, these things become defined. There is no faith or belief involved. Its happening right now - right here and can be verified by everyone. If a pink dragon with green strripes and polkadots suddenly appears in front of me, than either my mind is "playing" with me, or my of physics, science and logic must make corrections. Three is evidence to support my course of action, and so far none against.
On the other side - Understanding memetics as you do, can see how ideas travel in culture. I am sure you have historicaly rooted out many curiosities of your own and have seen how superstition and story telling become religion. Despite all the outright deception that is passed on. For the most part "God" has a description. There is no evidence to support that a God as described by humans in this culture exists. And a lot of evidence against.
Bill Roh
Richard Brodie wrote:
> As far I can tell, your faith that logic is behind all the workings of the
> universe is as irrational and devoid of evidence as the belief that God is
> behind them.
>
> Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/
> Author, "Virus of the Mind: The New Science of the Meme"
> http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/votm.htm
> Free newsletter! Visit Meme Central at
> http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/meme.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com]On Behalf
> Of sodom
> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 7:30 AM
> To: virus@lucifer.com
> Subject: Re: virus: Why people cling to faith
>
> I think that they as physical entities worked logically - That is also
> specifically why I said "not word games" because something works logically,
> does
> not mean it makes sense.
>
> Bill Roh
>
> Richard Brodie wrote:
>
> > Do you think Shakespeare used anything other than logic and reason to
> > communicate? Mozart? The Beatles? Are they liars?
> >
> > Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/
> > Author, "Virus of the Mind: The New Science of the Meme"
> > http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/votm.htm
> > Free newsletter! Visit Meme Central at
> > http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/meme.htm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com]On Behalf
> > Of carlw
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 11:21 PM
> > To: virus@lucifer.com
> > Subject: RE: virus: Why people cling to faith
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com]On Behalf
> > Of Marie Foster
> > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 12:34 AM
> > To: virus@lucifer.com
> > Subject: Re: virus: Why people cling to faith
> >
> > Ok.. that is clearer and more in keeping with the principles of rational
> > discussion. I also need to stick to doing what I told you all to do and
> > that is
> > speaking for myself. I accept that faith is a part of me as is
> scepticism.
> > Nor
> > do I have the talent to weigh it on any objective scale.
> >
> > I only find it alarming that with everything else we could be talking
> about
> > and
> > advancing, we always seem to come back to bashing others for what we
> > perceive to
> > be a weakness in thinking. Perhaps you see it as mentally unbalanced for
> a
> > person
> > to defy logic to remain principled. While I may see it as silly, I prefer
> > to
> > allow another the choice to live thier life as they see fit.
> >
> > Sigh
> >
> > That day that someone chooses to defy logic, you should cease discussion
> > with them, as discussion is not possible in the absense of logic. Choosing
> > to ignore reason means that you cannot have a meaningful discussion, as
> > words then no longer are vehicles for meaning. It is only through logic
> and
> > reason that we can establish meaning to ourselves, never mind the more
> > complicated issues of shared meanings through which communication occurs.
> > A person who abandon's logic and reason has no ability to hold discourse
> as
> > these are fundamental to discourse. So if a person who is communicating
> > claims to have abandoned logic and reason it can only mean that they are
> > liars. Communicating with liars can be useful in information and game
> > theory, but is seldom profitable in real life. As you know they are liars,
> > they will never convince you of anything. Suspecting that you know that
> they
> > are liars means that you will never convince them of anything. So you are
> > best wasting time and effort.
> > Be rational and just walk away. There are more important windmills to tilt
> > at....
> >
> > TheHermit
> >
> > Faith,n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without
> > knowledge, of things without parallel.
> > Ambrose Bierce The Enlarged Devil's Dictionary.