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Topic: virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman] (Read 1292 times) |
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athenonrex
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you have been FnoRded, may the farce be with you..
 
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virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« on: 2003-11-29 14:53:42 » |
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children children...not another flame war please...the incessant
flaming between so many parties in the CoV is one of the main reasons
for my recent hiatus and reprieve and fallow time of activity in the
church. if two or more should want to debate something, perhaps we
should develope mermaid's idea more and institute some agreed upon
rules, guidlines and restrictions for virian debate...but another
petty flame war? brothers, sisters...let us rise above this irrational
madness...
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ElvenSage
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Think for yourself, question authority.
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Re:virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« Reply #1 on: 2003-12-03 01:45:54 » |
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Totally agree with that. I'm backing you "brother athenonrex!" Amen!
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Safe from the pain and truth and choice and other poison devils
See.. they don't give a fuck about you, like i do.
Just stay with me, safe and ignorant,
Go back to sleep
Go Back to sleep
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metahuman
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Re:virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« Reply #2 on: 2003-12-03 12:59:53 » |
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I'm sorry, but I'm a verbal soldier. If someone fires at me, I'm going to fire back.
By the way, we have guidelines. These are called Virtues and Sins. Unfortunately, it seems I'm the only one that wants Virians to constantly adhere to the "Book of Virus"--to live the philosophy--instead of picking and choosing when to have the Virtues and when to have the Sins.
Order cannot be brought to chaos if chaos is chaotic.
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simul
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I am a lama.
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Re: virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« Reply #3 on: 2003-12-03 15:24:31 » |
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Life emerged from a series of connections that were sustaining.
Chaos predisposed the Universe to an infinitude of experimental connections, in this was manifest the occuring of life.
Fortunately, we have Arrow's theorem.
As long as ther is no pervasive and universal order, there always will exist a source of chaos and thus new connections and thus extropy.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
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metahuman
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Re:virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« Reply #4 on: 2003-12-03 17:03:40 » |
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This would be an interesting discussion.
From the definitions provided by Wordsmyth.net for "order", I say that any positive claim of the existence of order relies on subjectivity or rather the emotional and irrational faith in human perception as is the case with faith in gods. Order inherently implies command. If chaos--synonymous with nature--received order in the way that people generally say "bring order to chaos" then there must be some force more powerful than chaos to command it. However, this is assuming that nature uses a priority system.
It's only skin-deep to say that humans are the order (commander) over chaos (nature) as we can shape the world as we see fit, but our perception of things is also abstractly "skin-deep."
Now my knowledge of all the chaos theories, etc. is very limited. I don't know anything about Arrow's theorem, but I do think it is possible that "order over chaos" is not possible. I could probably provide a pretty good case that would stand up to a few verbal SCUD attacks if I had taken the time to do proper research on chaos theory and "natural order" so take this irrational discourse with a grain of salt.
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athenonrex
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you have been FnoRded, may the farce be with you..
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virus: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« Reply #5 on: 2003-12-04 22:02:48 » |
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[metahuman]
I'm sorry, but I'm a verbal soldier. If someone fires at me, I'm going to fire back.
By the way, we have guidelines. These are called Virtues and Sins. Unfortunately, it seems I'm the only one that wants Virians to constantly adhere to the "Book of Virus"--to live the philosophy--instead of picking and choosing when to have the Virtues and when to have the Sins.
Order cannot be brought to chaos if chaos is chaotic.
[athenonrex]
firstly...our sins and virtues are indeed guidelines. true enough.
however, they are guidelines for behaviour, not for debate. i feel, and
think, that creating established guidelines for people to follow, virian
specific, when engaging in debate would be most benificial and would be
a bit of elaboration to the virian sins and virtues. the topic has been
brought up quite a few times before, but it seems that every time that
the topic is brought up, the person proposing it, or the person bringing
the topic back up is shot down, along with the proposition because they
lack any specifics and details to the proposition.
whereas, however,
this forum is supposed to be an at least remotely democratic one, and
not the autocrasy that it more often tends to be...whereas because of
numerous and varied backgrounds, in conjunction with political,
(a)moral, ethical, social, economic and (a)religious views held by all
the members of the CoV...providing the details along with the
proposition would be in err, as the democratic aspects of CoV would be
undermined, as well as the diversity of it's members ignored. where,
might i ask, is the rationality in this? where, might i ask, is the
empathy in this? where, might i ask, is the vision in this?
you claimour to your values as a virian, and your self proclaimed title
of "verbal soldier"...yet you would overlook these considerations? and
based on what? your convienience? the fact that such rules of engagement
are not established? please, enlighten me...or at least induldge me by
explaining this to me.
to further confound the situation with the specifics of the arguement,
you two are arguing based upon your personal experiances and a mass of
generalization. whereas generalization is sometimes- often actually- a
necessity of life (i.e. you shouldn't have to touch the glowing iron
everytime to make sure that it's glowing because it's hot...you assume
that it is from past experiance...), generalization in an arguementative
sense should be followed up by specifics, examples, stats, etc...none
of which have been used so far that i've noticed. and the fact that the
other main source that both parties are drawing from is their personal
experiances with the education system also suggests further lack of
vision on both parts.
succinctly- i'm not trying to stir the shitstorm. i'm merely pointing
out that a shitstorm has the potential to start brewing here. and over
what? nevermind, by the way, all the ad hominem being slung (no names).
my suggested remedy to further incitation of shitstorms is to start a
forum where where we can discuss the drawing up of rules and guidelines
for virian debate. what is "acceptable" debate and what is
"unacceptable" debate, tactics, etc. but in such a way that everyone
who wishes to be involved and have say in the drafting of such rules
and guidelines will have due opportunity to speak up and add their
ideas, opinions, suggestions, objections, and what-have-you.
whereas we are not in a formal
forum, i do not believe we should be required to adhear to the strict
and ridgid Robert's Rules for debate. therefore, mermaid's much earlier
proposition of drawing up our own rules of debate seems to me a good
idea.
as i believe sebby would say (or was it someone else's signature?),
"courage...and shuffle the cards..."
oh, and your comment about chaos...
[metahuman]
Order cannot be brought to chaos if chaos is chaotic.
[athenonrex]
order? chaos? firstly, what relavence do those abstracts have? secondly,
chaos is chaotic by nature, and by definition...so you're effectively
stating that order cannot be brought to chaos, which i suppose is
generally true. the more that order is attempted to be imposed, the
greater the escalation of chaos generally is. but somehow, i don't
think that you were intending to imply that...so i have to ask, what
exactly do you mean by that?
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metahuman
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Re:virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« Reply #6 on: 2003-12-05 01:45:20 » |
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[athenonrex]
you claimour to your values as a virian, and your self proclaimed title
of "verbal soldier"...yet you would overlook these considerations? and
based on what? your convienience? the fact that such rules of engagement
are not established? please, enlighten me...or at least induldge me by
explaining this to me.
[metahuman]
An explanation isn't necessary. You're reading into too much. However, I do think you misunderstand the current inherence of the Virian Virtues and Sins. There are none of you that inhere these Virtues and Sins on a 24/7 basis. Each of you pick and choose whether or not you want to be Virtuous or Sinful. I learned that from Hermit.
The problem with the Virtue/Sin system is that they are guidelines. Guidelines are not rules of conduct. They are suggestions. I had proposed before I started MetaVirus that this system be morphed into a constant inherence system where members would strive to always inhere these Virtues and Sins rather than pick and choose when and where to have them.
[athenonrex]
succinctly- i'm not trying to stir the shitstorm. i'm merely pointing
out that a shitstorm has the potential to start brewing here. and over
what?
[metahuman]
Who knows? I could care less. I'm not bothered at all by flame wars. Are any of you that uptight that you are bothered by them? I'll take a Mermaidic stance on "shitstorms" as you dramatically put it: flaming is positive even if the content is negative. We need emotions. Hate, anger, and sarcasm help me think faster, deeper, and more creatively. Due to these benefits, I get into a lot of "dissing" sessions with people of various forums even if I don't consciously try. There are usually people like prometheus who just want to start shit and throw around some ad hominems like hooks trying to catch a few fish to strangle.
[athenonrex]
so i have to ask, what
exactly do you mean by that?
[metahuman]
Exactly as the sentence appears. As for relevancy, I have no idea... but it sounded cool nonetheless.
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athenonrex
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you have been FnoRded, may the farce be with you..
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Re:virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« Reply #7 on: 2003-12-05 16:00:49 » |
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[metahuman 3]
Who knows? I could care less. I'm not bothered at all by flame wars. Are any of you that uptight that you are bothered by them? I'll take a Mermaidic stance on "shitstorms" as you dramatically put it: flaming is positive even if the content is negative. We need emotions. Hate, anger, and sarcasm help me think faster, deeper, and more creatively. Due to these benefits, I get into a lot of "dissing" sessions with people of various forums even if I don't consciously try. There are usually people like prometheus who just want to start shit and throw around some ad hominems like hooks trying to catch a few fish to strangle.
[athenonrex 4]
touche...indeed, i would be in a state of hypocracy were to to imply
otherwise on the topic of emotion. emotion is that second half to the
human consciousness that other would seem to ignore. however, posting
out of "hate, anger" [not going to say sarcasm, too, because sarcasm
is always great  ], can be a bit irrational. all that i am suggesting,
though, is that- whereas this will always happen anyway, there will
continue to be flamewars, etc...- for those that are willing and wish to
debate with agreed upon rules and guidelines, etc, there will be a
sense of structure to it, avoiding confusion and miscommunication...
those are two of the main problems, i feel, with "flame" arguementation:
confusion over what the other party is trying to say, and misinterpret-
ing what the other person is indending to say.
the emotion/intellect dichotomy is an interesting thing to explore, but
also an entirely different discussion.
so, for now, what i'm wondering is...(please, other people respond to
this too, with thoughts, ideas, etc...)
can we start something like that? like schedule some irc nights to draw
up Virian Rules of debate? at least throw ideas around? maybe start
a forum on the bbs where we can post previous irc chats for anyone that
missed out, so they can post too...?
ideas? (and yes, the truth comes out...i shamelessly used you and
prometheus to bring this topic back up, meta...forgive my insolence...
)
-athenonrex
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metahuman
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Re:virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« Reply #8 on: 2003-12-05 19:12:56 » |
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[athenonrex]
meta...forgive my insolence...
[metahuman]
YOU WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN! YOU WILL BE SEVERELY PUNISHED....
DEATH! BY DISMEMBERMENT.
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athenonrex
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you have been FnoRded, may the farce be with you..
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Re:virus: Re: to the students here [prometheus and metahuman]
« Reply #9 on: 2003-12-06 05:49:42 » |
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[athenonrex]
meta...forgive my insolence...
[metahuman]
YOU WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN! YOU WILL BE SEVERELY PUNISHED....
DEATH! BY DISMEMBERMENT.
[athenonrex]
well...since you put it that way...what type of dismemberment are we
talking here? like, dismembering my reproductive organs? as in, literal
"dismemberment?" or something less severe, like taking a thumb,
japanese mafia style? or maybe like the slave days of your, when they
cobbled people, only a bit more extreme, to the point that you actually
take my entire leg?
OH! i get it...you mean...no, sorry...i can't part with that...no way
am i letting you dismember my nose hairs, man.
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